little italy

[snife2005]

I am doing a project on Little Italy about how it has shrunk in recent years and most Italians have moved out. I was wondering why this was and if the expanding Chinatown causes any conflict between the two areas. Thanks for any of your thoughts on this.

[lofter1]

One reason: The huge numbers of immigrants from China > NYC.

Another reason: Back in the early 90's Gotti lost control of his area centered on Mulberry St. (the FBI bugged his social club on Mulberry between Prince / Spring -- it's now a shoe store next to the MET grocery store). While Gotti's boys controlled the area none of the storefronts changed for years. But after Gotti was out the entire area began to change (and was labeled with the horrifying Real Estate moniker of "NoLiTa").

Gone are the days when the Gotti boys would commandeer the intersection at Spring / Mulberry on the 4th of July and put on their own hilarious fireworks show. Some of the old-timers and long-term residents still remain in the area, but many have either died or have moved off to Jersey, Florida or other areas outside of NYC.

FYI: The area now known as Little Italy was originally an Irish neighborhood (hence the original Old St. Patick's Cathedral on Mott / Prince -- where the saga goes that the brick wall around the church's graveyard was constructed in the late 1800's to keep the newly-arrived Italians from sleeping atop the graves).

This neighborhood will continue to change.

Nothing in NYC stays the same forever.

[snife2005]

Thanks for that information. It will come in useful. Is this however the main reason for Italians moving out or are people feeling threatened by the mass influx of Chinese immigrants, or just moving out to larger, more spacious homes in the suburbs due to increased affluence amongst the Italian community?

[brianac]

In Little Italy, a Former Bank Will Now Hold Immigrants’ Memories

By VINCENT M. MALLOZZI
Published: September 9, 2008

The echoes of Italian accents filled the old bank at 155 Mulberry Street.
Joseph V. Scelsa, standing in front of a teller’s window marked “Steamship Tickets” on a recent afternoon, held a receipt in his hand dated Dec. 3, 1894, that had belonged to a man named Raffaele Alonzo, who had paid $30 for a third-class ticket that had taken him to New York from Naples, Italy.

“He probably sat in steerage,” said Dr. Scelsa, a sociologist and professor emeritus at Queens College. “In those days, $30 was a lot of money.”

Those days will be celebrated beginning on Tuesday at the opening of the newly relocated Italian American Museum, at the site of what was once Banca Stabile, a bank used by Italian immigrants who flocked to Lower Manhattan in search of a better life. The bank operated from 1882 to 1932, when the area that would become known as Little Italy had one of the largest populations of Italian-Americans in the United States.

That area today has shrunk to little more than a tourist attraction. Dr. Scelsa estimates that fewer than 1,000 Italian-Americans live in Little Italy, which is dwarfed by sprawling Chinatown.

“This location is significant because the Stabile family was the cornerstone of this community,” said Dr. Scelsa, who is also the museum’s president. “Their bank was the financial engine that ran everything in this area.”

Dr. Scelsa found much of that evidence — and then some — in the bank’s vault, which contained artifacts like bankbooks filled with handwritten transactions, Italian and American money, steamship luggage tags from a variety of passenger lines, cablegrams and a small revolver.

“I have no idea why the gun was in there,” said Dr. Scelsa, as he passed other tellers’ windows marked “Drafts-Money Orders,” “Foreign Exchange” and “Paying-Receiving.”

The vault’s contents revealed that the neighborhood elite also banked with the Stabiles. A ledger card shows that Antonio Ferrara, who in 1892 founded the pastry shop that is still in business across the street, closed his account on Jan. 31, 1931, taking his $211,131 fortune with him.

Before that, a telegraphic receipt from April 3, 1920, shows that Mr. Ferrara wired 75,000 lire from Banca Stabile to the Hotel Londres in Naples to reserve a vacation room there. Two years later, Mr. Ferrara bought two first-class steamship tickets from New York to Naples for a total of $110.

“It was very rare that people traveled first class in those days,” said Maria T. Fosco, a member of the museum’s board who has been researching the history of Little Italy. “Obviously, Mr. Ferrara was doing quite well.”

Ms. Fosco said that at its peak, the neighborhood was a cluster of enclaves within an enclave, with various streets representing various regions of the old country.

“Most people who lived on Mulberry Street were from Naples,” she explained. “Those who lived on Elizabeth Street were from Sicily, those from Mott Street were from Calabria, and anyone north of Broome Street was from Bari.

“So if a boy from Mulberry Street married a girl from Elizabeth Street,” Ms. Fosco said with a grin, “that was considered a mixed marriage.”

On Thursday, Dr. Scelsa and Ms. Fosco were still putting items in glass display cases and framing pictures of weddings, churches, parades and steamships. They had already put on display several of the early machines used by the bank in the early part of the 20th century, including a Brandt automatic cashier, a Paymaster money order writer, a Burroughs adding machine and a Royal typewriter.

On Friday, a new door was installed on the Mulberry Street side of the building, and another around the corner, on the Grand Street side.

The museum was planning to open two days before the start of the annual San Gennaro Festival on Thursday. Dr. Scelsa and Ms. Fosco said they were hoping the festival would bring droves of Italian-Americans and others eager to learn about the cultural heritage of Italy and some of its favorite sons, including those of Italian descent raised well beyond the boundaries of the old neighborhood, men like William A. Paca, a representative of Maryland who signed the Declaration of Independence; and A. P. Giannini, born in San Jose, Calif., who became the founder of Bank of America.

Dr. Scelsa said that $9.4 million had been raised for the museum from a combination of city and state grants, as well as contributions from trustees of the museum.

“It’s a pretty fascinating place,” said Dr. Jerome Stabile III, 76, a retired surgeon whose family owned the Banca Stabile building and two adjoining properties, at 151 and 153 Mulberry, before selling them to the museum in June for more than $9 million. After the bank closed in 1932, the Stabile family used the bank building to run its real estate business.

The three lots, at the corner of Grand Street, will eventually be used to expand the museum to a planned 10,000 square feet. The museum, which first opened in June 2001, was originally situated in a Midtown office building on West 44th Street, until closing in June for the relocation.

“Everything in there, from the marble floors to the tellers’ cages and the gold writing on them, are original,” said Dr. Stabile, a great-grandson of Francesco Rosario Stabile, the bank’s founder. “I never removed anything from the bank or its vault because I had hoped all along that the space would one day be used as something more significant than just a restaurant or some other store.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/ny...l?ref=nyregion

Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

[Triborough]

What is basically there now is for tourists.

[Schadenfrau]

Originally Posted by snife2005

Thanks for that information. It will come in useful. Is this however the main reason for Italians moving out or are people feeling threatened by the mass influx of Chinese immigrants, or just moving out to larger, more spacious homes in the suburbs due to increased affluence amongst the Italian community?

Have you tried researching this subject at your local library? The answers you're receive here won't be strong enough to base a report on.

For the record, the majority of Italians moved out of Little Italy decades ago, I seriously doubt it had anything to do with being "threatened" by Chinese immigrants, and currently, apartments in Little Italy cost more than most large, spacious homes in the suburbs. The reality of this story differs greatly from the narrative you seem to have focused on.

[brianac]

A big chunk of history at Little Italy museum

BY CAT CONTIGUGLIA and CHRISTINA BOYLE
DAILY NEWS WRITERS
Thursday, October 9th 2008, 12:59 AM

New York's Italian-Americans now have a place to call home in the heart of the neighborhood where their ancestors' first set foot.

A museum dedicated to telling the experiences of the immigrants who arrived in Little Italy opened its doors Wednesday at the corner of Mulberry and Grand Sts.

Located inside the community's former bank, which operated from the 1880s to 1932 and was known as Banca Stabile, it will display exhibits and documents found in the building's storage basement and safe deposit boxes, including old passports, deeds and bankbooks.

"It gives you insight into the history of this area," museum curator Nancy Cataldi said.

"It's very important because Little Italy has changed so much. There's nothing authentic over here anymore.

"At least you can give people the history of what it was like down here - give people a feeling of this area," she said.

The museum opening comes as the NYPD also celebrates Italian heritage with a concert at the Hammerstein Ballroom on W. 34th St. tonight.

The Italian National Police Band will perform, and proceeds go to the Columbia Association, which provides grants and scholarships to Italian-American children.

cboyle@nydailynews.com

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...e_italy_m.html

© Copyright 2008 NYDailyNews.com

[TheFivePoints]

I recently took my family over there, and had a great meal at Giovanni's, the atmosphere was wonderful, I met nice people from all over the world. The meal was priced just right, the restaurants are all very good, they need to be to stay alive.

The tourist were open to all of our suggestions of what to do in the city, overall it is a shame that it has shrunk to the size it has become but you can not hault progress

[professionalx]

The story of Little Italy is mirrored in every ethnic neighborhood in the city. People move in, the next generation learns English, gets educated, moves on. Visit the Tenement Museum on Orchard Street if you really want to know about this. (http://www.tenement.org ) There's a church on Mott St, in the heart of the "old" part of Chinatown, where you can track the changes by reading on plaques the names of the parishoners who served as U.S. soldiers in the various wars of the last century. Or look at the 1939 WPA Guide to New York City, which describes many ethnic neighborhoods which I would love to visit... although my grandfather probably thought them something to avoid!

As for Little Italy, it exists only on the ground floor. My daughter is in kindergarten at PS 130 (Baxter St. between Grand & Hester), the very heart of Little Italy. The school was quite literally surrounded by the San Gennaro festival a few weeks ago, but she thinks that ""Little Italy" is called that because it is such a SMALL neighborhood - an island in Chinatown whose chief importance is gelato stand outside Ferrara's.

Some of her classmates are of European ethnicity - Italian, Irish, Jewish and even a Brit, some African-American or Latino but 90% are in fact ethnically Chinese - but silly kids, they all think that they are New Yorkers and Americans.

[justfabulouslyme]

There is nothing authentic about Little Italy anymore, save for (possibly) the gelato stand near Caffe' Sambuca.

It's very sad to me, as I grew up in an Italian American family and in fact my grandparents immigrated from Sicily to Little Italy during the turn of the century, but that's life. I would actually like to visit the bank which is mentioned in the article above. I had the chance to go to Ellis Island about a year ago, but I didn't go. Now I'm kicking myself for it because I'd love to see the names of my family members. I'm amazed at how much guts they had to get up and move.. and in fact, our family's story has gone full circle because next year I'm moving back to the "old country" to finish up my college education.

New York is ever changing, and we can't stop it. But for me, the nostalgia is always there.

[lofter1]

The bank (now museum) was more authentic a few years ago. But now it looks more presentable.

[TheFivePoints]

Right across the street from the bank on the corner is the Italian Food Center 186 Grand Street....the pizza is way to expensive but you can get a decent sandwich or hero for a good price.
Also there are some booths and tables where you can just sit and enjoy the areea.

[TheFivePoints]

New York is ever changing, and we can't stop it. But for me, the nostalgia is always there.

Change is good sometimes, all to often we look at things all in all the wrong ways.
I wouldn't use the word gentrification when thinking about little italy now. It has become smaller because the italians that once lived there wanted a better life for their famalies. The exodus was for reasons of a better life. The influx declined and so goe's the pool.
Hopefully at its present size it can thrive and maybe be reborn under these tough financial times.
It is sad though to see how small it has become.

[lofter1]

The prosciutto bread at the Food Center is delicious.

[TheFivePoints]

I did not care for the young women who was at the register the other day, I have to admit she was very hot she was yapping on her cell phone the whole time she was helping customers. The service at that place was pretty bad but the food is good.