Reply With QuoteI would like to see a tree or bench, with a plaque, near the spot where it happened. Maybe just one youngster or would-be criminal will read it and have a second thought about what they are about to do.
As much as this tragedy pisses me off, I can't help but think that TLOZ would want to see these kids rehabilitated - not hardened in an adult facility. Their actions and the result are unforgivable, but they, as human beings, are forgivable. Let's seek justice not retaliation. I think TLOZ was incredibly sympathetic to situations like this and we, like the friends cited in the articles, ought to advocate for punishment TLOZ would find just.
Also, can you folks let me know what to do with regards to the reward fund? Am I correct in assuming that is not the track we want to follow with four full confessions made by the alleged assailants?
Parks Department has still not called, but I thought we might pursue a donation and possible renaming of a community garden, should there be one, in the neighborhood. Any thoughts? I can look into this. I'd like to give my frustration with his death and mourning his loss here at WNY some positive outlet. So, please let me know your thoughts.
I have created a hotmail account that we can use for communication once a plan of action is determined...
I would like to see a tree or bench, with a plaque, near the spot where it happened. Maybe just one youngster or would-be criminal will read it and have a second thought about what they are about to do.
I'm very interested in adding to some kind of memorial. I've googled some on my own, but I haven't found anything useful to share.
Hate Crime
Yes....these kids........should NOT be punished......but released ONLY "after" being charged with a "hate crime".....this is about fairness/justice for TLOZ and all citizens.Originally Posted by BrooklynRider
We can not let this "citys" leagal system get away with sweeping the ISSUE under the rug......
One kid screemed GET the WHITE BOy! end of story....that is sufficiend evedence that they had hatred of his whiteness////period. Lets get real here.
It the DOUBLe STandard.....at issue.....and this is what I am TALKING ABOUT.
They must be charged with a hate crime .......slaped on the wrist like the children they are.........but it is the matter of LEGAL RECORD that is at issue with me.
I have found many on this forum to be people of sober judgement, high principal and keen inteligence.......you can see this is a matter of principal.
I'm not saying they should not be punished or that it should not be treated as a "hate Crime," which still isn't clear from what I'm reading. "Let's get the white boy" can be easily interchanged with "let's get the guy in the red pants." "White boy" was an identifyer not the reason. To me, it really doesn't seem like they were looking for a specific race, religion, sexual orientation, or gender for their victim. Anyone would have done.
Regardless, I think these kids need to be punished and taught a lesson, as opposed to being punished with no attempt to educate and improve their situation. If it were up to me, the parents would be hauled before the news cameras right along with them. The kids seemed to have done this, but we have these apologist parents talking about police picking on their kids who are running in packs unsupervised and who clearly have a history of bullying people in the neighborhood. I'd like to see the video of them in the fast food joint. The comment about one of the boys getting mixed up in the "wrong crowd" is classic - as if he himself ain't the wrong crowd to begin with.
I hate to wax philosophic on a subject that is emotional for all of us, but no one knows what kind of karmic justice was or will be dealt with this incident. Personally, I don't think anyone dies a minute before or after they are intended too - even in these most tragic situations. Of course, the situation is horrendous, but death is in the cards for all of us. The fact that JB seems to have been loved and appreciated by so many people speaks volumes about how much he actually accomplished in his short time here. There are people who die alone with no one to notice after scores of years on this planet. His death was sad and maddening, but his life was a success and an example of how to live. His family ought to be incredibly proud of him. He left this planet an accomplished human being - accomplished in compassion, accomplished in kindness, and accomplished in making a difference in other's lives. It's a much more impressive obituary than he was an Ivy League graduate, who made a billion dollars and had homes in Zurich and New York.
To go against or perhaps to go along with what you're saying part of the reason why this hurts so much does have to do with anonymousness but more with this forum being an escape from reality. I know for my self I post at Wired New York to escape all the troubles of the world, the hunger, the poverty, the crime, a corrupt government and all the other disgusting aspects of this world. I post about architecture and NYC, ignoring the other unpleasant aspects of life that I am forced to deal with in my every day dealings. And than BAM! My refuge was turned on its head, JB’s death shows that even on this online forum, where every thing should be an escape through our anonymous identities and common interest, an ugly reality still dictates beneath the surface. I think we need a greater awareness of this reality, to perhaps talk about it, not to run and escape from it, as I subconsciously was doing in almost all my posts here. Needless to say I think my involvement in this forum will change. This forum will for me never be the same escape from reality.
I had some of the same thoughts. Suddenly a mask was removed... TLOZ became a real person and the spell of the virtual landscape was broken. I´m 50 and there I was joking around with a kid who was 20. 20!!?? What am I doing here? Ribbing Nick-Taylor about London....chiding Czsz or Mid-townGuy about something or other.... something suddenly started to feel creepy. I work long hours in this office, at this computer...often late into the night.... on another screen I keep the forum... it´s a great diversion and excuse to slack-off.... but... those ARE real people out there.
And BTW: where´s LondonLawyer these past few days? See.... now I even get nervous.
Last edited by Fabrizio; April 10th, 2006 at 03:16 PM.
Nice post Stern.
It is disorienting to experience such a tragedy among what are usually very trivial conversations - even more so given how lighthearted TLOZ was. I wondered if it was even valid to feel a loss for someone you know only online. I don't have many answers, but I'm also struck by a new feeling that there are real people connected to all the names here, so I imagine I won't experience it in the same way either.
I'm not sure if you mean the NY Times article or the Daily News article.
I wrote neither article.
Remember that there are many people who check this forum who are not from NYC and therefore might not have access to what the NY press is writing -- as low as some of that writing might seem.
I also previously posted a LINK to an article that was very critical of press reports of the so called "wolf pack" attack of a Central Park jogger a number of years ago.
I see this afternoon that the Daily News -- to their shame -- has once again trotted out the old "Wolf Pack" headline in bold red print.
I believe that when the various reports are read in conjunction with each other that people can see more clearly what is going down. And better understand NYC.
The other side of that issue is that in THIS on-line community we are different, because of the very fact that we do care. Look at the separation anxiety we all felt when the forum went down. I think this tragedy is offering us a magical moment. Pardon the comparision, but it is as shocking within this virtual world as the WTC attacks was in our real world. Our sense of safety and self was shattered and challenged.
This is the worst possible thing that we can experience, but this is the challenge of community - the challenge to really, sincerely care about all of its members. Look at this out-pouring. If this is not one of the most special places and one of the most genuine on the Internet, then there are none to be found out there.
The beauty of this forum is that the beauty (and occasionally ugliness) of each member comes through with no baggage to cloud our perception. Was I surprised that a 20 year old could be so rolific in his posts and wise beyond his years? Absolutely. But, I was PLEASANTLY surprised. I am equally surprised that Fabrizio is some 50-year-old man who confesses to feeling old when his posts are some of the most exhuberant. All bets are off here. All preconceived notions disappear.
Look at how we are coalescing around this issue, the same way communities pulled together in New York neighborhoods following 9/11. Its a paradigm shift. We are the unarguable evidence that there are community's online that are real, cohesive and meaningful.
Stern, don't toss in the towel on this. Look at the response to JBs passing. If our outpouring for him doesn't prove that this is as real as the people outside your window, then the people outside are just as unreal. There are things in our lives that spur us on to see, believe and accept things that didn't seem possible. Our commitment to maintaining a level of maturity, respect and decency on these boards has worked brilliantly.
JBs death is tragic, but these emotions we are all feeling are EXACTLY why we need to go out into the REAL world and memorialize him. He wasn't anonymous on here. He was TLOZ and we all probably have had access to reaches of his mind and spirit that people who knew him all his life never knew. It does work both ways. Jesus, I post stuff on here that my sisters and friends would stick their fingers in their ears if I started talking about it. This is a great social experiment. We post and react and get angry and laugh - and the next day we get to reread exactly what we were thinking and see how we said things. We are at once anonymous and simultaneously totally transparent if we are typing our truth.
But speaking to that interesting footnote of forum anonymity, I have added a paragraph in the JB Memorial thread that hopefully can address everyone's concerns with anonymity in a fun and playful way. Please reread the initial message there and read the paragraph. It is in red. I do hope we all show up for a memorial day in all our anonymity. Please consider it and, Stern, we will hunt you down and drag you back here if you abandon us. Me and Fabrizio, the two old men.
Yet, I believe the comparison is perfectly logical. None of these kids would have attempted this alone. What was Kipling's line?
"The strength of the wolf is the pack and the strength of the pack is the wolf."
not just a robbery
In reading the more graphic accounts in the post about his being held from behind while another beat on him infuriates me.....imaging what horror he must have felt.....he would have given them his money.....they were beating him and he had to run for his life.......to run in the direct path of a speeding car tells me he was consumed by fear for his life.......this is not a simple robbery......do you think they would have been beating him if wasnt white....why were they beating him........can someone answer that for me.....i do not want to talk about this anymore......I am just sickened by this incident......how can anyone easily dimiss this a "nothing more" than a robery...I think it the lack of outrage over this incident that I am surprised at.
P.S. BRider...the difference about this forum is that we (most of us) cross paths on any given day....I rembember when you posted about you walking along HRpark one day..I may have been there too that day and met you.....I often walk thru washington sq park and see the collage kids (I old) and think that one may be who posts at nywired,,,,,,lofter talks about areas that I go to everyday....and so on.....and even peple who are not living in the area are likey to come to nyc and arrange to meet someone here....any way that is one of te reasons (for me) that makes the critical difference from some of the other forums.....mabe why I am so deeply affected by TLOZ tragic death....
Last edited by infoshare; April 10th, 2006 at 06:28 PM.
Honestly, I think those criminals would have beaten anyone who had something they wanted, regardless of color. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't pay much attention to the news.
Info, I do understand and sense your strong feelings about this and I do think we are all sharing the same feeling and outrage. Perhaps, we are communicating it differently. But, we need to be careful that our outrage does not turn to blind rage. We know nothing about these kids other than they did this. I think I am more upset at the parents of these kids. I'm upset that right before this they were tearing up a fast food place and no one called the cops and/or the cops did nothing. I'm plenty mad, but I need to channel it into something productive. I am so mad that I've spent my entire workday on the phone trying to find an organization to collaborate with on a memorial project. I can't obsess over stuff out of my control, but I can utilize that energy for something that I have control over.
100 blacks of NYPD
The very first news event I saw was the televised "on scene" report from the rep of NYPD blacks - he stated that TLOZ was selected for 2 reasons "one was he made a kind gesture by giving mony and two the color of his skin" -------- did YOU pay attention to the NEWS.
I walk on 125th street a lot less frequently these day because I have been approached subject to racial comments and attempted assualt on more than one occasion....I know the scene he was in....color had "a lot" to do with why he - as the NYPD rep said - was selected and particulary why he was beaten.
But my main concern continues to be about people "like you" who seem to have a somewhat dismissive attitude about this.....the racial comments that were made by his attackers and the beating is sufficient to charge these people for a hate crime.....and its "publics" lack of insistence on this point that angers me most.
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