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Thread: 605 West 42nd Street at 11th Ave - by Costas Kondylis

  1. #46
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3
    How disappointing ...

    Most of the apartments facing south will be blocked by the second phase of River Place anyway.
    Correct ... and (see attached map for all the potential building sites surrounding this new building -- all property lines approximate ):

    Views to the west blocked by 46 story Atelier.

    Views to the north soon to be blocked by whatever will inevitably go up there.

    Views to the east blocked by 46 story building across 11th Avenue.

    The big lot on the SE corner of 42nd / 11th might stay intact as a low-rise plot for some time to come as FedEx currently owns / uses that site.

    And what is to become of the big 1-story Verizon garage on W. 43rd just to the west of this new one?
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  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by krulltime
    I don't think this one is all that boring... usually all residentials are boring but this one will be good. I love the way the glass slopes up in an angle. Or it seems like it. It actually contemplates the Atelier.

    Not buying the cutouts. They worked better on the Atelier. Here they look wimpy. In fact the building would be much stronger without the cutouts, and in fact better than the Atelier.

    It's like a bad version of the 3 Richard Mier towers together.

  3. #48
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Here you go... CITY REALTY.COM is watching what you say...


    Second Moinian tower on West 42nd Street will have 938 condo units


    27-JUL-06

    Renderings of the second phase of The Moinian Group’s huge development on West 42nd Street east of 11th Avenue were publicized today on http://wirednewyork.com.

    Several posters on its discussion board on New York City real estate described a rendering of 605 West 42nd Street as two towers, one 57 stories and the other 54 stories, with a total of 938 condominiums.

    The rendering, however, appeared to indicate one tower and Daphne Viders, director of communications for The Moinian Group, confirmed for CityRealty.com this afternoon that the rendering depicts one, not two, towers.

    The new tower will rise just to the east of the Atelier, the first phase of the Moinian development. The 46-story Atelier was topped out this spring and has 478 condominium apartments. Its sleek blue-glass façade is punctuated by banded groups of different fenestration patterns that do not extend fully around the slab tower.

    The new building appears like two slabs: the shorter, southern slab has a pronounced grid fenestration pattern punctuated by four different windows bands that pay homage to the Atelier’s distinctive façade; the taller, northern slab, however, not only has a clear façade that is not distinctively gridded but also a roofline that slants upward from the west to the east, adding a new visual dynamic to the grouping, one whose slanted roofline hints to the midtown skyline and whose notched western ends thematically recall oceanliner bridge aesthetics.

    The developers purchased the project, which will be known as Atelier, in June from the J. D. Carlisle Development Group and CUBS 42nd Street LLC.

    The new building will include 375 parking spaces and about 200,000 square feet of retail space.

    Forty-Second Street west of Eighth Avenue has been undergoing a major transformation for many years, led by some off-off-Broadway theaters, then the twin apartment towers of the full-block Manhattan Plaza project, then Harry Macklowe’s Riverwest apartment tower followed by Larry Silverstein’s Riverplace tower overlooking the Hudson River. More recently, Extell is completing its very tall Orion apartment tower just to the west of the “Green Giant,” as the great, former McGraw-Hill Building designed by Raymond Hood is known. Two other apartment towers have been recently completed and there are two very large undevelopment parcels that are likely to be development in the not distant future.

    Meanwhile, the state has just approved a major expansion of the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority is reexamining a proposal from the city to purchase its large amount of air rights over train tracks west of Penn Station, and the Times Tower on Eighth Avenue at 41st Street has been topped out recently – all of which adds up to a lot of real estate activity.

    While some observers have characterized the Moinian Group’s 42nd Street towers as flamboyant and colorful exercises in Miami style, it would be hard to not characterize them as “handsome” and “attractive,” much to the lament of some posters at wirednewyork.com who are convinced that CityRealty.com’s vocabulary is limited.

    There is always a shock in comparing renderings with finished products. What appears daring and bold in a drawing may be merely a carbuncle in some prince’s eye.

    Kondylis’s designs for Moinian on 42nd Street have a simple but stunning resonance where fine proportion and élan may outweigh detailing.


    Copyright © 1994-2006 CITY REALTY.COM INC.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    Correct ... and (see attached map for all the potential building sites surrounding this new building -- all property lines approximate ):

    Views to the west blocked by 46 story Atelier.

    Views to the north soon to be blocked by whatever will inevitably go up there.

    Views to the east blocked by 46 story building across 11th Avenue.

    The big lot on the SE corner of 42nd / 11th might stay intact as a low-rise plot for some time to come as FedEx currently owns / uses that site.

    And what is to become of the big 1-story Verizon garage on W. 43rd just to the west of this new one?
    river place will block many views, but to the north, there is a large UPS center (with a parking lot on top) which will likely stay. everything to the north is not zoned for residential, but that could easily change. the fedex location will likely stay (maybe the midblock parking lot may go) so there will be some decent views. also, riverbank west on 42/11th is only 1/2 block wide, and the strand is not as tall. high floors will have great east views. becasue of javits low profile, the view between river place I and II will also be preserved. it wont be like now, but they wont be totally blocked in either. its not so accurate to draw lines over the entire parcels.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by krulltime
    Here you go... CITY REALTY.COM is watching what you say...


    Second Moinian tower on West 42nd Street will have 938 condo units


    27-JUL-06

    Renderings of the second phase of The Moinian Group’s huge development on West 42nd Street east of 11th Avenue were publicized today on http://wirednewyork.com.

    [...]

    While some observers have characterized the Moinian Group’s 42nd Street towers as flamboyant and colorful exercises in Miami style, it would be hard to not characterize them as “handsome” and “attractive,” much to the lament of some posters at wirednewyork.com who are convinced that CityRealty.com’s vocabulary is limited.

    There is always a shock in comparing renderings with finished products. What appears daring and bold in a drawing may be merely a carbuncle in some prince’s eye.

    Kondylis’s designs for Moinian on 42nd Street have a simple but stunning resonance where fine proportion and élan may outweigh detailing.


    Copyright © 1994-2006 CITY REALTY.COM INC.
    Well, this is certainly something new! I'm absolutely delighted that the writer(s) at CityRealty took notice and chose to give a direct response to this. I almost feel as if I've offended someone, though it wasn't my intention. You can see the result: carbuncle, resonance, and elan...these are words I'd never expect to see in a CityRealty article, let alone two consecutive sentences.

    My concern, really, lies more with the fact that so many buildings are described as "handsome" and "attractive" on CityRealty. Some are deserving of such praise; others are questionable, and yet more are completely uncalled for. It may just be that my taste is somewhat more discriminating, but I still felt that these words were being overused. For anyone who reads their articles (many of which I post here, on the forum), you know what I'm talking about.

    In this case, for example, I don't see how either "handsome" or "attractive" are appropriate adjectives. The Atelier is an unremarkable tower, perhaps somewhat better than average among recent New York residentials. The ocean-liner reference, as many people have noted, is so subtle and imperceptible that it borders on ridiculous; the forms of the buildings are more of the same: typically boxy, and uninteresting. Costas hasn't strayed much from his traditional work.

    I think this addition will turn out much worse than the original. For one, the combination of the two slabs to form one tower seems unacceptably awkward, in both the facade treatments and the juxtaposition of straight-edged versus slightly angled. It's an exercise in pastiche; take one look at the eastern facade of 4 Times Square to see the result. I just don't see the purpose of having these two thin slabs conjoined at the middle to form a bulkier tower. Settling for one or the other would have been a better decision: either provide a soaring, angled slab for contrast, or create a big-brother Atelier. With the latter, though, those ocean-liner notches should be arranged on either side of the building, just like the original. Then, you get symmetry, and a design that's more strongly linked. All in all, I agree with most of the initial reactions. This site had great potential, and the current design is a wasted opportunity, at worst, and just another average residential tower, at best.

    P.S. - Good call, Stern. I think I owe you some money, or a round of drinks, at the least.

  6. #51

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    pianoman, always starting trouble.

  7. #52

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    Well, now that we know people are reading...
    this college student needs a job. Hear that CityRealty? FxFowle? Goldman Sachs?..yes, even you O' Hara.
    I can PM my resume' lol.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfenn1117
    pianoman, always starting trouble.
    Hey, you're the one who first suggested taking bets! I don't start, I just hop on the bandwagon. In any case, aren't you at least a little upset you didn't get mentioned in the article? I mean, you basically gave CityRealty a story (and us something to talk about). Who knows how much longer we would have waited to see those renderings if you weren't snooping around.

  9. #54

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    Yeah, I still await the day I'm directly mentioned. I also was the first to post that tower in the UWS. "The poster sfenn1117 has provided the first seen rendering of this new tower on wirednewyork. We thank this handsome and attractive man for finding it."

  10. #55
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    ^Haha, too funny!

  11. #56

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    Makes me vomit.

    Moinian is the devil.

  12. #57

    Default could they relocate Vantone here - location is strategic for them

    I noticed on my way to get a visa for an upcoming trip the Atelier is basically physically adjacent to the Chinese consulate [which is very large, as consulates go]. I'd rather see some office space to leverage what seems like a strategic business location for a high growth area of Wall Street and media - China related stuff.

    The free market should decide this, of course, but I think it would be exciting to see some new office space break ground over there, or maybe at 440 west 42nd street as has previously been speculated.

  13. #58
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Vantone might not like to see all the Falun Gong protestors across the street from the Chinese Consulate ...

  14. #59

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    Wow, what an ugly design. Interesting massing concept but the facade treatment is horrible.

    And I would rather see the glass slope inward, to be honest. Structural expression is great but not on this scale and not in this neighborhood.

  15. #60
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    Absolutely agreed on the sloping. That was one of my initial reactions to the design. I don't think it's unrelated to the fact that with this design, they'll get more units on the upper floors, and more money to charge per square foot based on the scenic views (that will eventually be blotted out, anyway).

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