View Poll Results: Construction is underway, how do you feel about the final design for the WTC site?

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  • I am more than satisfied; I believe that the final design surpasses that of the original World Trade Center. 10/10

    50 26.18%
  • While nothing may ever live up to the Twin Towers, I am wholly satisfied with the new World Trade Center; it is a new symbol for a new era. 7/10

    55 28.80%
  • I have come to terms with the new World Trade Center; although it has a number of flaws, I find the design to be acceptable. 5/10

    47 24.61%
  • I am wholly disappointed with the New World Trade Center; we will live to regret the final design. 0/10

    22 11.52%
  • I am biased, but honest, and hate anything that is not a reincarnation of the original Twin Towers.

    17 8.90%
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Thread: World Trade Center Developments

  1. #1651

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAuch
    They're still here because they are protesting the oppressive regime of the "People's" Republic of China.
    lol, knowing how easily China is influenced by things like this they should set up camp, they might be here for quite a while. Meanwhile, it was all right during week 1 but now just get the **** out of my way. Human traffic everywhere!

  2. #1652
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Ground zero traffic cop
    Command center will oversee worker transport, other logistics as construction starts at WTC site


    By Anne Michaud
    Published on September 26, 2005

    The rebuilding of Ground Zero is about to begin. Over the next five years, the $10 billion effort will require as many as 15,000 workers and more than 200,000 trucks of concrete. Some 45 different public agencies, developers, contractors and utilities will participate.

    It's up to Charles Maikish to make sure that all the pieces come together and that lower Manhattan isn't paralyzed in the process. He concedes that the logistical challenges are keeping him up at night.

    "We know what the problems are, and that's the first step," says Mr. Maikish. "Now, we have to engineer answers."

    Mr. Maikish is executive director of the Lower Manhattan Construction Command Center, a little-known agency authorized by Gov. George Pataki and Mayor Michael Bloomberg to oversee the rebuilding of parts of downtown south of Canal Street that were devastated on Sept. 11, 2001. Some people are already predicting that the command center could become yet another ineffective layer of bureaucracy in the politically charged and emotional resurrection of downtown.

    The numerous public and private projects getting under way represent the biggest concentration of construction activity ever attempted in three city blocks.

    Workers are clearing ground now for the Santiago Calatrava-designed PATH station. By next March, 20 projects--including the World Trade Center Memorial, the Freedom Tower and demolition of the Deutsche Bank building--will be in progress.

    Mr. Maikish, an engineer and lawyer by training who worked on the original World Trade Center construction, is already shaping a solution to one of the biggest hurdles: how to move massive numbers of workers in and out of such a tiny spot every day. The answer might be to create staging areas for workers in New Jersey or on Staten Island and carry them in by bus or ferry. Another traffic snarl could be created by cement trucks. His solution is to build micro-batching plants to mix concrete to order on site, rather than trucking it in.


    Frustrated residents


    Even before the major construction has begun, preliminary work has left residents and businesses weary. Even small, daily headaches interfere with people's routines and lives. Delivery trucks, copier repair services and cable installers avoid the neighborhood, where Rector Street has been excavated three times and Maiden Lane twice.

    "A great deal of frustration has arisen over the fact that we often don't know from day to day whether the street in front of the building is going to be dug up again, or for how many more weeks those trucks will be idling outside our windows," says Joni Yoswein, a lobbyist whose firm is located one block from Ground Zero.

    Not only must Mr. Maikish keep streets passable, he must also monitor the air for construction dust, manage noise levels and halt heavy work at a decent hour. He has already pulled two work permits over such issues.

    At the same time, city and state officials are desperately marketing the new buildings. Developer Larry Silverstein is scrambling for tenants for his 7 World Trade Center, just outside Ground Zero, despite a package of government-subsidized incentives that make the rent as much as $40 per-square-foot lower than midtown rents.

    Insiders worry that Mr. Maikish's job does not carry enough direct authority to mediate among the various parties. He answers not only to Mr. Bloomberg, who is poised to win re-election, but also to a lame-duck governor who leaves office at the end of next year.

    "Sure, he might be able to get cooperation, but it's not the same as being able to say, `Get it done or you're fired,' " says one insider.


    Devoted to the cause


    Mr. Maikish is going to have to rely to some extent on his force of will and his background. In his previous job, he was executive vice president of the global real estate business at J.P. Morgan Chase.

    His personal history is intimately tied to the World Trade Center. As a director with the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, he was running the facility when it was bombed in February 1993. He lost 48 friends and colleagues on Sept. 11.

    There's an intense devotion to the rebuilding, he says. "I wouldn't say it's just patriotism," he says. "It goes to the question of overcoming the adversity that was imposed upon us and showing that we can succeed beyond the recovery, succeed and build something even better."


    2005 Crain Communications Inc.

  3. #1653
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krulltime
    Over the next five years, the $10 billion effort will require as many as 15,000 workers and more than 200,000 trucks of concrete...
    By next March, 20 projects--including the World Trade Center Memorial, the Freedom Tower and demolition of the Deutsche Bank building--will be in progress.
    This is going to be really exciting to watch!

    And think of the changes to come!!!!!!!!

  4. #1654
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    Didnt they have a tunnel from Jersey City to the wtc site when it was constructed to reduce traffic problems from the concrete and material deliveries? Then they converted it into the Path Tunnel, correct? If they are expecting companies to move into the new buildings, and are planning on developing to the level they want (Freedom tower + the ancillary towers), wouldn't it seem wise to just build another tunnel parallel to the current path tunnel for the trucks to use throughout construction of all the buildings, then in 8-10 yrs, once the area is finished (or a majority of the largest buildings completed) convert that tunnel to a second path tunnel? (That was the longest sentence ever, I apologize.) It seems like that would reduce construction traffic, allow for future commuter capacities they hope for and in the end may reduce car traffic as well if NJ commuters had more trains going to the WTC site...

    I know it won't happen, it's too logical

  5. #1655

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    The PATH tunnels are almost 100 years old.

    They were called the Hudson Tubes of the Hudson & Manhattan RR until the 1960s, when the Port Authority agreed to buy and operate the line in exchange for the use of the land to build the WTC.

  6. #1656
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ld876
    ...wouldn't it seem wise to just build another tunnel ... convert that tunnel to a second path tunnel? it's too logical
    Hmmmm ....

    Any guess on the cost of building a new tunnel?

    And if they did build it, when would it be ready to allow delivery of all those construction materials to the WTC site?

  7. #1657

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    The PATH tunnels were never used to bring material to the WTC site.

    West St will be able to handle the truck traffic as long as the NYSDOT doesn't begin the Rt 9a reconstruction.

  8. #1658

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    There are and have always been 2 PATH tunnels at the WTC. The first (annotated) photo shows them after they were excavated (and suspended in mid-air) during the construction of the WTC "bathtub." One of the 2 buildings comprising the Hudson Terminal (the future site of 4 and 5 WTC) was still standing. The Hudson Terminal, between Church and Greenwich Streets, with the Hudson tubes station in its basements, was the largest office complex in the City. The second photo shows the suspended tubes from within the bathtub during construction of the twins (1 WTC is rising above ground, and 2 WTC's foundation is in the foreground).



    Last edited by ManhattanKnight; September 27th, 2005 at 07:32 PM.

  9. #1659

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    Right - two tunnls-1 eastbound and 1 westbound. They originally extended to Church St-the old Hudson Terminal. They were cut off at Greenwich St when the WTC was built. You can see the remnant under the IRT structure from the Liberty St viewing area.

  10. #1660

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    New York Times
    September 29, 2005

    Retail Plan for Ground Zero Is Unveiled

    By DAVID W. DUNLAP

    A day after evicting the International Freedom Center museum from the memorial quadrant at ground zero for being too controversial, state officials described a plan this morning to develop a half million square feet of retail space elsewhere on the World Trade Center site.

    John P. Cahill, Gov. George E. Pataki's chief of staff and the top-ranking downtown development official, told business leaders that 200,000 square feet of retail space - roughly half the area of the old trade center shopping mall - will be built in the PATH terminal and transportation hub on which construction has just begun.

    An additional 300,000 square feet are to be developed along Church Street, where most visitors now gather to view ground zero. The retail space would be developed, at least initially, by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

    "I'd expect an enormous amount of interest along the Church Street corridor," Mr. Cahill said. He said stores were needed for the growing number of residents downtown.

    Mr. Cahill also said that the cultural building on the memorial quadrant, originally intended for the Freedom Center and the Drawing Center, will instead be used as the above-ground "complement" to an underground memorial museum devoted solely to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. That museum is planned to be built within the trade center's foundations - a sore point for relatives of 9/11 victims, many of whom opposed the Freedom Center.

    Use of the cultural building, designed by the Norwegian firm Snohetta, might increase by at least 40,000 square feet the amount of exhibition space for the memorial museum, which now stands at 110,000 square feet.

    After Governor Pataki ordered the embryonic Freedom Center off the memorial quadrant on Wednesday, the center's founders responded almost immediately by putting an end to the entire project, saying it was intended exclusively for the ground zero site and could not be placed elsewhere.

    The Freedom Center, picked for the memorial site by the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, was envisioned as a living memorial in which the story of Sept. 11, 2001, would be told in the context of the worldwide struggle for freedom through the ages.

    Critics said the sacred precinct of the memorial was no place for a lesson in geopolitics or social history, particularly when the memorial museum was planned entirely underground, within the trade center foundations.

    The Drawing Center, an art museum in SoHo, has already begun looking for other new space downtown rather than directly answer the governor's demand that it pledge never to do anything that would "denigrate America." In a statement explaining his decision, Governor Pataki said, "There remains too much opposition, too much controversy over the programming of the I.F.C., and we must move forward with our first priority, the creation of an inspiring memorial."

    He said he had instructed the development corporation, which is overseeing the development of the memorial and cultural buildings, to "work with the I.F.C. to explore other locations."

    Less than an hour later, the center said in its own statement that there was no other location to explore, since the memorial quadrant was "the site for which the I.F.C. was created, at the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation's request, and as an integral part of Daniel Libeskind's master site plan."

    "We do not believe there is a viable alternative place for the I.F.C. at the World Trade Center site," said the statement from the center's executives, Tom A. Bernstein, Peter W. Kunhardt and Richard J. Tofel. "We consider our work, therefore, to have been brought to an end."

    Debra Burlingame, who led the opposition to the Freedom Center, beginning with an article in The Wall Street Journal, "The Great Ground Zero Heist," on June 9, congratulated Governor Pataki on his decision. Her brother, Charles F. Burlingame III, was the pilot of the airliner that was crashed into the Pentagon.

    "The International Freedom Center was an obstacle not simply for the families, the first responders and all those who were personally affected by the events of Sept. 11," Ms. Burlingame said in a telephone interview, "but for all Americans who will be coming to the World Trade Center memorial to hear the story of 9/11 and that story only.

    "And I believe that story will be able to convey all the core values that Governor Pataki so eloquently enunciated," Ms. Burlingame said, adding that 9/11 was a story not only of loss but "an uplifting story of decency triumphing over depravity."

    In 2004, the Drawing Center, an established art museum in SoHo, and the Freedom Center, which existed only as an idea, were picked as joint tenants of a cultural building to rise at the edge of the memorial, on Fulton and Greenwich Streets.

    After critics expressed concern this summer that there would be anti-American exhibitions and programs in the cultural building, Governor Pataki demanded an "absolute guarantee" that neither institution would do anything "to denigrate America."

    Rather than respond directly, the Drawing Center began looking for alternative space. But Mr. Bernstein, the chairman of the Freedom Center, and Paula Grant Berry, its vice chairwoman, pledged in a July 6 letter to the development corporation that their museum would never "be used as a forum for denigrating the country we love."

    Criticism only grew. On Aug. 11, John C. Whitehead, the chairman of the corporation, instructed the Freedom Center to submit a report on its plans and programs, saying that its tenancy in the Snohetta building was at risk.

    That report, issued last Thursday, did not assuage opponents, including three Republican congressmen, the police officers' and firefighters' unions and, as of last weekend, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York.

    Former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, who is identified strongly with the events of 9/11 and its immediate aftermath, supported Mr. Pataki's decision on Wednesday. "The governor has made the right decision," he said.

    Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who had recalled the importance of the planning process whenever he was asked to comment this summer, issued a brief statement. "Although I understand Governor Pataki's decision," he said, "I am disappointed that we were not able to find a way to reconcile the freedoms we hold so dear with the sanctity of the site."

    In retrospect, the fate of the Freedom Center may have been sealed three years ago with the decision to create a clearly defined parallelogram, bordered by four streets, in which both the memorial and a cultural complex were to sit. Since this was the site of the twin towers, it may have been inevitable that the block would be seen as hallowed.

    Gretchen Dykstra, the president of the memorial foundation, which will build and own the memorial and cultural buildings, said the governor had now "provided clear direction that the memorial quadrant should be devoted to telling the story of Sept. 11th."

    Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

  11. #1661

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMac

    Mr. Cahill also said that the cultural building on the memorial quadrant, originally intended for the Freedom Center and the Drawing Center, will instead be used as the above-ground "complement" to an underground memorial museum devoted solely to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. That museum is planned to be built within the trade center's foundations - a sore point for relatives of 9/11 victims, many of whom opposed the Freedom Center.

    Use of the cultural building, designed by the Norwegian firm Snohetta, might increase by at least 40,000 square feet the amount of exhibition space for the memorial museum, which now stands at 110,000 square feet.
    OMG, am I understanding this right, the building stays but it's now a 9/11 museum????!!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?

    THE NEWS JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER

    when I said they should just move the Tribute from Liberty Str, to that building this is exactly what I meant.

  12. #1662
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    These huge monuments to death and suffereing are insufferable. This is going to be nothing more that a ghoulish freakshow of crushed cars and fire trucks, rebuilt walls of missing flyers, another 3000 uniform patches and hulking pieces of radioactive building remnants. What a horrendous waste of money and public space. This is no more gallant than giving billions to Halliburton.

  13. #1663

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRider
    These huge monuments to death and suffereing are insufferable. This is going to be nothing more that a ghoulish freakshow of crushed cars and fire trucks, rebuilt walls of missing flyers, another 3000 uniform patches and hulking pieces of radioactive building remnants. What a horrendous waste of money and public space. This is no more gallant than giving billions to Halliburton.
    It's what 9/11 was, that is the point of the memorial. People come to Ground Zero to get a feeling of what it was like. They will never know it because I can barely comprehend it. I want people to never forget what happened here.

  14. #1664
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I can't even begin to imagine what it will be like two generations from now.

  15. #1665
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I went to the Holocaust Museum in DC this past winter. While it was informative and conveyed a tiny bit of the immensity of that horror show, there is no way that it could ever reconstruct the moments of those who actually went through that time.

    And the Holocaust Museum is a relatively small building. And undeniably of more immediate interest to those who had family members who either died in -- or escaped from -- the Holocaust. That group of human beings now numbers in the multi-millions.

    The two Memorials at WTC (above-grade at the Snohetta building and below-grade in the are around the footprints) are going to be immense. Both spaces are now being focused towards the relatives of less than 3,000 individuals who lost their lives that day. For all the others it seems this will be a show-and-tell show.

    People will be overwhelmed, not by feelings from that September day, but from the sheer deadening size of it.

    This whole thing should be simpler. Think about standing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. Or below the Statue of Liberty. Or at the vortex of the wall of the Vietnam Memorial. Those structures allow a person to think and feel from within themselves.

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