Giants Stadium

[pianoman11686]

Giants Make Another Offer for Stadium at Meadowlands

By CHARLES V. BAGLI and RICHARD SANDOMIR

Published: September 14, 2005

With just days left before an agreement to build a new $800 million football stadium in the Meadowlands in New Jersey expires, the Giants tried to revive their stalled project by offering to settle all their differences with the developers of Xanadu, the $2 billion entertainment and retail center at the sports complex.

The Giants asked the developers, the Mills Corporation and Mack-Cali Realty, only to provide more parking spaces and support the team's stadium proposal over a more ambitious plan from the Jets.

But the Xanadu developers refused to take sides, squashing the last-minute attempt to build an alliance. The decision leaves the fate of the stadium uncertain.

Under an agreement struck last April between Acting Gov. Richard J. Codey and the Giants, the team has until tomorrow to work out a master plan with the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority and cooperating agreements with Xanadu and the Jets. But there has been little or no progress on any front, and state officials have essentially blamed John K. Mara and Steven E. Tisch, co-owners of the Giants.

Until the overture this week, the Giants had been hostile to Xanadu, fearing that the complex would generate traffic congestion and interfere with tailgating fans on game day. The team filed lawsuits in an attempt to block Xanadu's construction, but the effort has so far been unsuccessful.

The Jets, however, unveiled a proposal for a joint Giants-Jets stadium that calls for "an N.F.L. showplace" integrating sports, entertainment and retail into one project. The proposal is much more in tune with the Xanadu developers' plans and has been praised by the sports authority.

But the developers said they would remain neutral.

"Our goal is to build Xanadu," said Robert G. Sommer, a spokesman for the developers. "We are not in the football stadium business, but we desire an agreement between the Giants and the Jets for a new stadium."

John Mara, executive vice president of the Giants, flew to Virginia on Monday to meet with Laurence C. Siegel, chairman of the Mills Corporation, to discuss the proposal, according to one person briefed on the meeting. But Mr. Mara declined to discuss the gambit yesterday.

"We've had discussions on and off and we're trying to conduct these discussions in private, notwithstanding the efforts of others," he said. "We're continuing to have discussions with Mills and we remain hopeful."

In the last few weeks, chances for an agreement have dimmed. On Sept. 1, Carl Goldberg, chairman of the sports authority, sent a letter to the Giants deploring the team's failure to reach the required agreements with Xanadu. Given the Giants' "intractable" positions and "increasingly truculent tone," he said, he reluctantly planned to "consider the termination" of the memorandum of understanding at the authority's meeting on Friday.

Last month, Mr. Goldberg criticized the quality of the Giants' stadium design, which did not include the Jets' logo.

Mr. Goldberg's letter represents a remarkable turnaround. In April, he was tapped by Governor Codey to cement a deal with the Giants. He and the governor negotiated an agreement that provided the Giants with generous terms, including the rights to develop 75 acres, up from the 29 acres now used by the teams.

The team would pay the construction costs of the stadium, or split it with the Jets if the Jets chose to remain in New Jersey.

The state would pay for infrastructure costs, which are estimated at $30 million but could run higher. And while the team would pay for demolition of the old stadium, the state would be left with the remaining debt on the structure, about $100 million.

The path to an agreement that includes the Jets has proved to be full of obstacles, and many state officials say they are the Giants' fault. The Jets are exploring a move to Queens.

But if time runs out on the current agreement, the Giants may face a much less sympathetic governor. Both Senator Jon S. Corzine, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent for governor, Douglas R. Forrester, have been critical of the terms of a deal with the Giants, saying the state is footing too much of the bill.

But the Giants still might file revised plans. Mr. Mara promised last month that the team would submit a proposal that complies with all of the state's requirements.

"The sports authority would like to see a two-team stadium with the technology that can make it either team's home on game day," said George Zoffinger, president of the sports authority. "It should have a retractable roof so the state will garner revenues from a Super Bowl, the Final Four, political conventions and other events."

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[ZippyTheChimp]

September 17, 2005
Giants and Jets Have 10 Days to Work Out a Stadium Deal


Giants Stadium LLC
An artist's rendering of the proposed Meadowlands football stadium complex, to be shared by two teams.

By CHARLES V. BAGLI

It is now up to the Giants and the Jets whether there will be a new stadium complex in the Meadowlands.

The board of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority voted yesterday to give the Giants a 10-day extension, until Sept. 29, to work out their differences with the Jets over the ground rules and design of the complex, and to form a "50-50 partnership" to operate a new football stadium. If a deal cannot be reached, the sports authority will end an April agreement signed by the state and the Giants to build a vast stadium complex on 75 acres of public land in the Meadowlands.

The two teams have divergent views on the size and shape of the stadium, the location of a practice field and certain retail operations, as well as the stadium's relationship to Xanadu, the $2 billion retail and entertainment complex that would share the property.

But while none of the issues appear insurmountable, a deal with the Jets would require a fundamental change in the Giants' position as the pre-eminent tenant at the sports complex. No longer would the Jets have to play in a stadium emblazoned with the electric blue letters of another team.

The Jets, in turn, would have to give up any plans, real or otherwise, of moving to Queens.

"It must be a real, genuine 50-50 partnership," said Carl Goldberg, chairman of the sports authority. "I don't think the differences are so significant as to preclude a meeting of the minds."

But the jockeying for position continued, with the Jets trying to maintain maximum leverage.

"We remain concerned that the stadium proposal developed by the Giants does not address such fundamental areas of concern as stadium configuration and business terms," the Jets said in a statement late yesterday afternoon. "We will continue to work toward resolution of these issues, but it is unreasonable to expect such a complex agreement could be concluded in just 10 days."

In the meantime, the Jets said they would continue to explore their options, including a new football and soccer stadium in Queens.

The vote to extend the deadline came after weeks of public sparring by the sports authority, the Giants, the Jets and the developers of Xanadu.

With the April agreement on the verge of collapse, the Giants finally submitted their master plan on Thursday for an 80,000-seat, two-team stadium, a training operation and a sports-oriented retail center, which was required by the April agreement.

A second condition set by the state, for the Giants to come to terms with Xanadu, was cleared 15 minutes before the authority's board met yesterday and another deadline expired. The Giants struck a definitive agreement with Xanadu's developers, acknowledging, at least for now, that the retail center would not interfere with game-day operations.

"This was obviously a huge hurdle," said John K. Mara, the Giants' chief operating officer. "We're relieved to have it behind us. We're now onto the next step, reaching an agreement with the Jets."

The developers agreed to give the Giants $15 million, a part of which would go to the Jets, to offset any game-day disruptions caused by construction activity. But they declined to back the Giants' master plan, saying that stadium details have to be worked out between the two teams.

The developers gave the Giants the right to sue them up to two years after the new stadium opens if Xanadu results in extra traffic congestion or interferes with tailgating fans.

While the Giants had largely ignored Xanadu in the past, their master plan now shows a bridge to the retail and entertainment complex over Route 120 and a soon-to-be-built rail station.

After sharply criticizing the quality of the Giants' plans and bargaining posture, Mr. Goldberg yesterday went out of this way to praise the work done by Mr. Mara over the past 48 hours.

"We are genuinely pleased by the progress made by the football Giants," Mr. Goldberg said.

In an interview yesterday, Mr. Mara said that the Giants and Jets should form an equal partnership. "At the end of the day, both us will realize that this deal makes so much sense," he said. "It's in both our interests to consummate something as quickly as possible."

But last month, the Giants displayed preliminary stadium plans that had the Giants logo splashed across it, but neglected to name the presumed co-owner. The omission was regarded by the Jets as a snub. Mr. Mara said yesterday that it was a misunderstanding.

Still, the Jets are not eager to put everything behind one option after their bruising, five-year, $65 million effort to build a stadium in Manhattan ended in failure. The team has pursued two options, one in New Jersey and one in Queens.

But the effort to quickly forge a deal in New Jersey would undercut Queens, which requires a lengthy state approval process to turn over the public parkland the team wants to a private user.

Despite talk of Queens, Mr. Goldberg said yesterday that based on his conversations with L. Jay Cross, the Jets' president, he thought the team was "truly committed to being in New Jersey."

"Their focus and resources are exclusively on a football stadium at the sports complex," Mr. Goldberg said.

If the teams are able to agree, some of the money for a new stadium could come from the National Football League, which provides teams with up to $150 million for construction.

With two teams involved, Mr. Mara said, "There's a strong argument that could be made that we're entitled to more than $150 million, and maybe as much as $300 million."

State officials have played an active role in the negotiations, in part hoping that a new stadium agreement can be reached while Acting Gov. Richard J. Codey is still in office. The Giants and the Jets would also rather get a deal done sooner, rather than later.

Both candidates for governor - Senator Jon S. Corzine, a Democrat, and Douglas R. Forrester, the Republican-have been critical of the financial terms of the April deal for a stadium, which they say shifts too much of the burden onto taxpayers.

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[ZippyTheChimp]

Tagliabue enters talks on Giants-Jets stadium


Wednesday, September 21, 2005 BY MATTHEW FUTTERMAN
Star-Ledger Staff
NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue has jumped into the negotiations for a shared stadium for the Jets and the Giants.

Five executives involved with the discussions said Tagliabue met with Giants Chief Operating Officer John Mara and Jets owner Woody Johnson yesterday to discuss the progress of the talks.

The teams have until Sept. 29 to work out a deal or the state has said it will terminate the agreement acting Gov. Richard Codey signed with the Giants in April to build a new stadium at the Meadowlands Sports Complex.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league would not comment on the discussions, but Tagliabue has made no secret of his desire for the two sides to reach a deal so the NFL can have a premiere facility in the nation's largest market.

Tagliabue has pushed for a Super Bowl in Giants Stadium, and the league awarded the Jets the 2010 Super contingent on the team reaching a deal to build a stadium on the West Side of Manhattan. That deal collapsed in June.

Since then, the Jets have said they want to play in a shared stadium in New Jersey but have also held preliminary meetings with officials in Queens.

Negotiating a deal between the Jets and Giants will not be easy.

The two sides remain far apart on the design of the facility and 45 acres of surrounding development.

Carl Goldberg, chairman of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, the state agency that operates the Meadowlands Sports Complex, said he spoke with the Jets' Johnson on Sunday and Mara and Giants executive vice president Steve Tisch on Monday, but knew of little progress in the talks.

"Hopefully, we'll be getting a good report from them soon," Goldberg said.

© 2005 The Star Ledger© 2005 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

[ZippyTheChimp]

September 29, 2005

Jets and Giants Near Deal on New Jersey Stadium

By CHARLES V. BAGLI

In a sudden turnabout after weeks of jostling, name-calling and bitterness, the Jets and the Giants were close yesterday to signing a 50-50 partnership agreement to finance and build a football stadium in the Meadowlands, the first of its kind for teams in the National Football League, according to executives involved in the negotiations.

The breakthrough in the tempestuous negotiations came late Tuesday night during a five-hour meeting at the Meadowlands racetrack between Acting Gov. Richard J. Codey; John Mara, co-owner of the Giants; Woody Johnson, the Jets' owner; their respective lawyers; and Carl Goldberg, chairman of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, which oversees the Meadowlands sports complex.

The owners of the two teams, which are rivals on the field but co-occupants of the existing stadium, agreed to submit many of the most contentious issues - including the size and shape of the new stadium and the location of practice fields - to binding arbitration, according to two executives involved in the discussions. Although the partnership agreement would put to rest for now any talk of the Jets building a stadium in Queens and would allow Governor Codey to claim victory, there is no guarantee that the two sides will not have a falling out and scuttle the deal at some point in the future.

If it holds, however, the Giants and the Jets will be able to develop a modern stadium complex on 75 acres, up from 29 acres today, with luxury boxes, premium seating, sports-oriented stores, a hall of fame and a new rail connection. The teams would split the cost of the project, which is expected to be more than $800 million, and would, presumably, develop their own advertising and marketing while sharing revenues from naming rights.

The stadium would also have a connection to Xanadu, the $2 billion retail and entertainment complex that will share the property.

"I am very encouraged by the progress in keeping both teams in New Jersey," said George R. Zoffinger, president of the sports authority. "Our next objective is to make sure there is a retractable roof, so we can attract the Super Bowl and other events, something that is supported by the commissioner of the N.F.L."

Yesterday afternoon, the team owners and their lawyers gathered again at 2:30 in Mr. Goldberg's office at the Meadowlands in hopes of coming to terms. The meeting broke up at 7:15 p.m. without a final deal, but the teams agreed to meet again this morning to settle the outstanding issues. Several officials involved in the talks said they were optimistic that an agreement could be reached by 5 p.m. today, the deadline.

"We feel like we have made progress," a Giants spokesman, Pat Hanlon, said last night, "and we are going to sit down again tomorrow in hopes of reaching an agreement."

Never before have two football teams agreed to build a stadium together. The Jets joined the Giants at Giant Stadium in 1984 because they had nowhere else to go after fleeing the confines of Shea Stadium in Queens. But the Jets have always resented playing in a stadium named after a rival team.

"This would be the first example of a stadium being developed from the outset for two N.F.L. teams," said Marc Ganis, president of Sportscorp, a sports business consulting firm based in Chicago. "The cost of these buildings has skyrocketed to such a degree that it makes far more economic sense to share the debt service and the revenues. The net revenues for the two teams are likely to be significantly better than if they each built their own stadium."

That does not mean that it was easy for the teams to get even this far. At separate moments over the last month, each team has been cast as a villain by the other parties in the negotiations.

Then early this week, L. Jay Cross, the Jets' president, formally told Paul Tagliabue, commissioner of the National Football League, that the team was also considering building a $1.3 billion stadium on 15 acres in a park near Shea Stadium, infuriating New Jersey officials who said Mr. Cross had committed to New Jersey.

Mr. Cross then gave the sports authority a list of "preconditions" to a partnership with the Giants that included items sure to be unacceptable to the Giants, Xanadu or the sports authority. Talks seemed headed for a breakdown. But at least two issues continued to loom large in the teams' negotiating calculus, and prevented a total collapse. Both teams realized that if the Giants refused to relinquish their role as the marquee tenant at the Meadowlands and failed to accommodate the Jets, the tentative deal for a new stadium on 75 acres was unlikely to get sweeter.

Both the Democratic candidate for governor, Senator Jon S. Corzine, and his Republican opponent, Douglas R. Forrester, have been critical of what they view as the overly generous terms of the deal offered by Governor Codey.

And the sports authority refused to budge on its deadline - today - for the two teams to form a joint venture. This left the Jets with too little time to play out their strategy. The Jets had pursued stadium deals in both the Meadowlands and Queens ever since their five-year, $65 million effort to build a stadium in Manhattan died in June.

But while the team was able to line up support for a Queens stadium among local elected officials, it could not hope to gain the support of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg until after Election Day.

The sports authority and the Giants insisted that the Jets choose between New York and New Jersey. The Jets could have bailed out of the negotiations with New Jersey and, under the terms of its lease at the Meadowlands, sued to block the Giants from building their own stadium.

According to two people involved in the negotiations who insisted on anonymity because of the continuing talks, Mr. Tagliabue told the Jets that it would not be a good idea for the team to try to foil plans for a new Giants stadium if it was truly interested in moving to Queens. That meant the Jets would have been left as a tenant of the Giants in New Jersey with the hope of getting a New York stadium at some point in the future. Hours later, on Tuesday evening, the Jets and Giants neared an agreement to form a partnership and submit to binding arbitration.

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[STT757]

Acting Governor Richard Codey just announced the deal on the Mike and the Mad Dog show on WFAN, looks like the NFL will contribute $300 Million towards the stadium. It will host the Super Bowl, which means a retractable roof.

Also the NY Jets will move their Headquarters and practice facilities from Hoftstra to Monmouth Race Track in Long Branch New Jersey, located on the Jersey Shore in Monmouth County near Monmouth University.

[STT757]

Here's the audio interview of Governor Codey on the Mike and the Mad Dog program.

http://wfan.com/homepage/local_audioclip_272180332.html

[Teno]

The economic impact is minor. The number of jobs created by sports facilities is in the hundreds, and while that is OK in and of itself, it is a poor ROI for public investment.

Depends on how a city leverages its sports facility. With imagination and forsight a stadium can be used for far more events than only NFL football.

The Georgia Dome in Atlanta has been host to:

Centennial Olympic Games (1996)
Super Bowl XXVIII (1994)
Super Bowl XXXIV (2000)
NBA ALL Star Game (2003)
The Atlanta Falcons
The Peach Bowl
The Heritage Bowl
The Pioneer Bowl
SEC Football Championships
U.S. Indoor Track and Field Championships
Atlanta Hawks (1998-1999)
NCAA basketball
The Georgia High School Football Playoffs
The Georgia/Florida High School Basketball All-Star Game
Georgia high school and college football championships
NCAA Final Four in 2003 (women)
NCAA South Regional 2004 (men)

Future Events at the Georgia Dome

SEC basketball tournaments in 2004, 2005 and 2008 (men)
NCAA Final Four in 2007 (men)
ACC basketball tournament in 2009 (men)
Super Bowl XXXXIII 2009 (Bidding)

The Georgia World Congress Center is 3.9 million square feet facility, with 3.4 million visitors anually. Its economic impact was $1.9 billion in 2001.

Compare it to the economic impact of Goldman Sachs - thousands of jobs, not seasonal, but every day, generating other jobs in the area. It is why, as painful as it was, the city had no choice but to give GS the money.

Goldman Sachs has recently reported a record profit of 1.6 billion. GS will create new jobs but like any business will take the lions share of the profit.

A sports franchise and sports stadium like any property can make a lot of money or make little to no money, depends on how you leverage it to your benefit.

NJ has the opportunity to leverage this new stadium and its proximity to Xanadu into a great advantage.

I wholly disagree that NYC could not leverage a stadium to its own advantage.

[Teno]

The Jets going back to NJ also show me they were not really fully committed to their own stadium.

If they weren't prepared to go all the way, there was little point in trying.

[ZippyTheChimp]

We went over this same stuff in the Westside thread. In fact, I remember you posted the same events, but that is not proof of anything. Your list is not supported by any data that these events make enough money to warrant public investment. You only think they do, because of all the hype attached to the event.

But if you make a comparison between the economic activity generated by a major company employing thousands and a sports franchise, you will find that it is not even close. Check the Gehry-Brooklyn Nets thread and read the economic forecast for public revenue expected from the Nets.

Besides, even compared to other NFL franchises, the Jets are a lousy organization, poorly managed on and field and in the front office. That's why we've had this silly circus the last few years.

Maybe you should reread the Westside thread, and note all the things you said about the development against what I said.

So, who had it right, and who had it wrong?

[Teno]

Your list is not supported by any data that these events make enough money to warrant public investment. You only think they do, because of all the hype attached to the event.

I did find a detailed break down of the economic benefit of the Georgia Dome and Georgia World Congress Center. Through the 90's it was largely profitable and made billions for the state of Georgia. The center took a downturn at the turn of the centry as did most of the national economy. But it has still always remained profitable.

Its profit vs public investment must be good enough for the state of Georgia as they continue to invest money in the center's expansion and development.

The chart was too detailed to compile for a posting. And I don't have time to search for it right now to find a link.

Check the Gehry-Brooklyn Nets thread and read the economic forecast for public revenue expected from the Nets.

Yes I've seen that. A smaller basketball arena is not even able to host the events I listed. It should also be obvious that two basketball areas are not going to make as much money as one basketball arena.

So, who had it right, and who had it wrong?

The out come has not proven or disproven what either of us has said in the Westside thread. The reason the stadium failed was purely politics. It had little to do with its economic viability.

The outcome does show us this..

Besides, even compared to other NFL franchises, the Jets are a lousy organization, poorly managed on and field and in the front office. That's why we've had this silly circus the last few years.

On that I can agree with you. The West Side would have been an important development, and would have been a waste if The Jets bungled it. So its probably good they didn't get it.

[kliq6]

As for the claim in the Jets Queens post that NJ gets jobs when the Jets move there HQ there, that strue but there HQ was on LI, so NYCl ooses no jobs. the offic ethey had in Midtown was only for people involved with the development of the NY Stadium

[STT757]

Long Island looses jobs and the State of NY looses the tax revenues from their large salaries.

With regards to the Stadium this is a huge deal for NJ as the State is not putting money into the stadium, just roads and Rail connection. The NFL is going to give the teams $300 Million which will go towards the retractable roof, this will bring the Super Bowl to the Meadowlands as well as other events like the Final Four or possibly even a College Bowl Game.

[kliq6]

True the state loses money, but honestly i hate NY State, I love NYC and i dont care if the rest of the states economy tanks. I wish NYC could leave the state but we cant, its just such a poorly run place

NY states economy, outside of NYC is actually one of the worst in the nation. 90% of firms that want to leave the city because of cost go to NJ or CT, suburbian NY is rarely considered. Outside of IBM, Pepsico and a few other is Westchester, The states economy stinks

Sorry to rant , this is for another thread

[ZippyTheChimp]

With all the new stadiums coming on line, how often do you think the Super Bowl will roll in- once every 12 years? The inside-the-stadium benefit will go to the NFL, and NYC will still get a share of the outside-the-stadium benefit.

Like no one making a trip to a Super Bowl in NJ would bother going to Manhattan? From the article on Tagliabue:

Tagliabue has made no secret of his desire for the two sides to reach a deal so the NFL can have a premiere facility in the nation's largest market.

Would the NFL bother if NYC was not on the other side of the river?

And without the Jets in the way, we still get to develop the Westside. So while this is a good deal for NJ, in that the stadium will be more efficiently used and be privately funded; it will not be as big a deal economically for the state. It will be for the teams and the NFL. That is the one constant everywhere they are built. For NYC, having the Jets out of the city will be a net gain in revenue.

[normaldude]

Originally Posted by STT757

Long Island looses jobs and the State of NY looses the tax revenues from their large salaries.

NYC/NY should have courted the Giants & Jets earlier on for a joint Queens stadium. After all, stadium deals for Yankees and Mets were done fairly painlessly.

Instead, NYC wasted time trying to make a $600 million corporate welfare payment for a wildly unpopular West Side Stadium, thus letting NJ seal a deal with the Giants, and have the upper hand in an eventual joint football stadium.

Originally Posted by STT757

With regards to the Stadium this is a huge deal for NJ as the State is not putting money into the stadium, just roads and Rail connection.

That's the way it should be. Public sector funds should be spent on public sector projects.

Originally Posted by STT757

The NFL is going to give the teams $300 Million which will go towards the retractable roof, this will bring the Super Bowl to the Meadowlands as well as other events like the Final Four or possibly even a College Bowl Game.

That's the way it should be. If for-profit, private sector companies want a store/stadium/building/roof where they'll get 100% of the net profits, then they should pay for it themselves.

NYC really dodged a bullet with the West Side Stadium scam. A football stadium and/or retractable roof should be paid by the NFL and the private-sector sports teams, not the tax payers. NY is full of businesses generating tax revenue & jobs, and none of them got a $600 million corporate welfare payment. Additionally, the West Side Stadium deal would have given a $1 billion piece of waterfront Manhattan property away for $250 million.

If the NFL does pay $300 million for a retractable roof, and the Meadowlands gets events like Superbowl/NCAA Final Four/College Bowl games, then NYC will be the big winner. NYC will have paid zero tax dollars, but still end up with recurring economic benefits as tourists come to the area.

In the weekend surrounding the Superbowl/NCAA Final Four/College Bowl game, tourists would stay a Manhattan hotels, eat at Manhattan restaurants, party at Manhattan bars & clubs, go to Broadway shows, shop on 5th Avenue, and then go to the Meadowlands for the big game. I'm fairly certain that someone coming to town for a Superbowl weekend will spend more time in Manhattan than at suburban NJ malls or bars in Hoboken.