|
Gothamist
February 8, 2007 The "New Coney Island" Gets A Website Posted by Jen Chung http://www.gothamist.com/attachments...7_02_cone1.JPG If technology can see into the future, then the future is clearly Vegas for Coney Island. Gowanus Lounge looks at the new Coney Island website launched by Thor Equities' PR firm to trumpet the New Coney Island: THE FUTURE OF CONEY ISLAND. GL notes, "The site focuses on new amusements, job opportunities, community and retail opportunities. It omits mention of more controversial plans to develop luxury housing highrises on the boardwalk." And, boy howdy, does it! The site has an entrancing sound bite-heavy Flash Intro. Here are some screencaps: http://www.gothamist.com/attachments...7_02_cone2.JPGhttp://www.gothamist.com/attachments...7_02_cone3.JPG http://www.gothamist.com/attachments...7_02_cone4.JPGhttp://www.gothamist.com/attachments...7_02_cone5.JPG http://www.gothamist.com/attachments...7_02_cone6.JPGhttp://www.gothamist.com/attachments..._02_cone10.JPG And, for some other Coney Island delights, did you realize there are Nathan's Gummi Hot Dogs? 2003-2007 Gothamist LLC. |
|
The new C.I. website is a Thor tool. Comments cannot be posted, but must be submitted for review and approval. It shows lots of blurry images of crowded areas that, given Thor's history, are most likely retail areas.
Under Thor's proposal, the amusement area in C.I. will be smaller than at any other time in C.I.'s history. The "new C.I. website" says nothing about the Taconic Investment's property sites west of Keyspan Park. This is Thor emulating Bruce Ratner's Atlantic Yards tactics and Thor is proving to be second rate. Thor went from the company of promise to the company of lies. They want to build housing and hotels on 2/3 of the land they own. The amusement area will be less than a third of what it is now. Developers are scumbags. |
So has anything changed yet. i haven't been there in a few years and the only that that had changed was the subway station....
any pics? |
City Signals No-Go for Coney Island Luxury Tower
Land Use BY ELIOT BROWN - Special to the Sun February 15, 2007 URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/48692 Developer Joseph Sitt's plan to revitalize Coney Island with new amusements financed with profits from luxury housing is facing new resistance from the city. Yesterday, the chairwoman of the Department of City Planning, Amanda Burden, criticized Mr. Sitt's plan to include a luxury tower in the beachfront district that is zoned for amusements. "Amusements are incompatible with immediate adjacent residential use," Ms. Burden said at a Crain's New York breakfast presentation in Midtown. Mr. Sitt's Thor Equities has planned a $2 billion complex for the area, which would contain a large amusement component, both indoor and outdoor, and retail. The developer says it must finance the amusements with the inclusion of about 700 luxury condominiums along the boardwalk. Market studies show that they need both the extra people and added revenue from the units to make the development financially viable, Thor Equities has said. Last month, the developer threatened to scuttle its plans for the amusement park if the city disallows the residential apartments. The city is in the midst of creating a comprehensive plan for the area, which would include rezoning to allow for the amusement complex and nearby residential development. Ms. Burden said rezoning the area for the allowance of residential units in the surrounding area is important for the project, but apartments in the heart of the amusement district would detract from the overall revitalization of Coney Island. Any zoning change would need to pass through the city's uniform land use review process, and requires approvals from the Planning Commission and the City Council. A spokesman for Thor Equities, Lee Silberstein, said that discussions with the city are ongoing. "We continue to work with the administration to formulate a plan that can be implemented for Coney Island," Mr. Silberstein said. As the company dances with the city over the possible inclusion of condominiums, it has been ramping up efforts to sell the project to the community. Thor Equities launched a website for the project last week, which does not mention plans for the residential units, and recently sent out cards to neighbors promoting the potential development. In her talk yesterday morning, Ms. Burden also said that a plan for a rezoning in the Manhattan's Garment district would soon be revealed. The rezoning would not call for the addition of residential in the area, she said, once a thriving apparel manufacturing district. |
Quote:
|
There's enough trouble when bars and clubs are unavoidably thrown in the mix together. There are inevitable conflicts.
It's another thing to actually plan a coexistence. I can't comment on Mr Sitt's contention that he needs the extra revenue from condos to finance the project, but that he needs these people in the mix is a big stretch.The idea behind the revitalization is to attract people to use the 4 subway lines to Coney Island year-round, not to have it supported by area residents. And even if you accept Sitt's argument, why do these people have to be on the Boardwalk. As I suspected, this project is a trojan horse for Sitt to introduce luxury beachfront condos. It's still the easiest way for a developer to turn a nice profit. |
Yeah, right, Mr. Sitt :rolleyes:
Of course all those occupants of $1M + condos will be lining up daily to ride the Cyclone. Trojan Horse indeed ... |
Heard there was a small article in the Metro (free daily newspaper) earlier this week about boardwalk shops being torn down. Apparently the former shop owners have all signed confidentiality agreements, but I haven't seen the article myself. If anyone has, or has an online link, please post.
|
Not quiet on Coney Island
Thor wants towers, woman says by amy zimmer / metro new york FEB 28, 2007 brooklyn. Dianna Carlin has been making her funky Coney Island-themed T-shirts for her Lola Staar Souvenir Boutique on the boardwalk for seven years. She hoped to stay there after Thor Equities began buying up area property — including her building — to redevelop Coney Island. She was reluctant to sign a lease when she saw Thor’s confidentiality clause barring tenants from speaking about neighborhood plans. Though she signed the lease last month — “I so badly wanted another summer in Coney Island” — the agreement was never executed. She was evicted days later. “They’re trying to deceive everyone into believing they will create amusements,” Carlin said. “They just want to play hardball with the city to get the zoning changed so they can build condos on the boardwalk.” Current zoning does not allow that. “Thor has forced everyone to sign the confidentiality clause, so when people go to the businesses and ask about it, all you can do is shrug your shoulders,” she added. Before the confidentiality issue, Carlin had a “good relationship” with Joe Sitt, principal of Thor. When Carlin contacted Sitt’s office about her eviction, “The lawyer said the eviction had to do with negotiations with the city. I just feel like I’m this prop. It’s this game for [the developer], but it’s my business.” And those of others. “They’ve torn down the go-karts, bulldozed the batting cage and part of Shoot the Freak’s walls,” Carlin said. “The entire block from the subway station to the boardwalk will be vacant. When you and your family get off the train, it will look horrible. People should be aware of that so something can be done.” She is looking for another Coney Island space. “It’s businesses like Lola Staar’s that have given Coney Island its unique flavor and authenticity, and we hope to see it relocate and succeed in the area for many years to come,” said Yonit Golub, spokeswoman for the city’s Economic Development Corporation. “The city is committed to preserving and enhancing Coney Island’s historic amusement area, making sure it stays open to the public and creating economic opportunities for local residents. We have serious concerns that residential uses are not compatible with that vision.” Thor declined to comment on Lola Staar, but spokesman Lee Silberstein said, “We continue to work with the city on a plan that can be implemented.” Thor's vision Thor Equities plans to build amusement rides, an indoor water park, retail space and hotels in Coney Island. It also wants to build luxury condos. |
Lola gives a very detailed explanation of what Thor did to tenants and what their game plan is, here:
http://www.coneyisland.com/cgi-bin/y...num=1172752990 |
|
Rather than a "Coney Island Renaissance" this might be turing into a little bit of a "Coney Island Revolution" ...
Catch the 'Save Coney Island' Wave CURBED Tuesday, March 13, 2007 by Robert http://www.curbed.com/2007_03_Coney%20Mermaid.jpg Don't look now, but that little $2 billion Coney Island redevelopment plan seems to be attracting some opposition. Of course, last week we had the developer taking his problems public and suggesting that questions we being raised by "folks at the junior-most levels of government," by which we think he might have meant Planning Director Amanda Burden. Then, an e-mail started making the rounds about a "No Condos in Coney Protest Party" that "will be hosted by some of New York's most colorful burlesque performers!!" Now, the group is online as "Save Coney Island" with a a myspace page. A sample: Thor Equities, the developers who have bought most of Brooklyn's legendary Coney Island, are attempting build luxury high rise condo buildings right in the heart of our Amusement District. They are trying to bully the City of NYC into rezoning the Amusement District to allow them to build these exclusive high rise condos on the boardwalk. Thor Equities is silencing the Coney Island business community so that they cannot speak out about this redevelopment. They are threatening the City with the blight of vacant land and evicted businesses. These hardball negotiating tactics are just the beginning of what is to be a vicious war over the rezoning of Coney Island.Oh, and someone has started a "Save Coney Island" online petition. More to come. · Save Coney Island [myspace] · Save Coney Island: The Party Begins [Brit in Brooklyn] · Coney Island #2: Thor Boss Says Haters Just Don't Get It [Curbed] *** What Can You Do To Save Coney Island- Part One Please write a letter to Planning Director, Amanda Burden Amanda Burden is NYC's Planning Director. She plays a very important role in determining whether or not Thor Equities will get the rezoning they desire to build luxury condos on the boardwalk in Coney Island. She has made a bold stand against Thor Equities. You can read more about her position in the article that came out in the New York Observer today! http://www.observer.com/20070312/200...newsstory1.asp Please write to Amanda Burden to let her know that you support her position that there should be NO CONDOS in the Amusement District. The area is currently zoned C7 for Amusements only! This C7 zoning should be preserved! You can email her at: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildcp.html Even if it is just a brief note to show your support! Please let her know that she has the support of the Coney Islands community! Or, please sign this online petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...ltl=1173754589 |
Quote:
OH GAWD...JUST SHUT UP ...there is NOTHING to save over there... http://www.gothamist.com/images/2005...reak-thumb.jpg :D |
I'm with them. Don't think condos belong there.
Surely there are enough underutilised land in the outlying area where they can build the condos instead. |
Exactly ^^^ this is about what Coney Island will become for the next 100 years. Million dollar condos with ocean views have plenty of other options.
Not here. |
It's only one small section of Coney Island that's at issue - the area zoned C7, south of Surf Ave, east from Keyspan. There are other residential development opportunities in Coney Island.
Joe Sitt has already turned over property he owned west of Keyspan. My impression is that he's an amateur in NY real estate politics, and may have gotten in over his head. His "gag order" on leaseholders was clumsy; anything they might have said is less a story than the act itself. From Kinetic Carnival City Planner Amanda Burden Stands In Sitt's Way Thor Equities' Joe Sitt spoke with Matthew Schuerman at the New York Observer last week. "We’re stuck in the bureaucracy," exclaims Sitt. He wants Planning Director Amanda Burden to get out of his way. At a Crain's New York Business breakfast last month Burden said that condos should not be 'adjacent' to amusements regarding the plans Thor Equities has for Coney Island. The city has recently been more poised than ever to stand firm for keeping the amusements in Coney. However, the city has made reservations for some residential to be part of the project. Sitt told the New York Observer, “It’s just crazy that somebody from government would want us to mothball this entire thing for five or 10 years, to leave it to another administration to make it happen.” The NY Observer reported: In some ways, Mr. Sitt jumped into the game too late to replicate the way another Brooklyn developer, Bruce Ratner, convinced the city and state to support a sports arena right next to a massive apartment village. Mr. Ratner saw a desolate rail yard in central Brooklyn and used it as a wedge to create an eight-million-square foot development. Mr. Sitt began buying property only four years ago, after the city constructed a minor-league baseball stadium and had already made its mind up to forge a community-led master plan for the neighborhood. On the other hand, Mr. Sitt—unlike Mr. Ratner—never needs to use eminent domain. He has spent $150 million buying out dozens of land owners, according to reports, prying heirlooms from the families which created Nathan’s Hot Dogs and brought the Ferris wheel to New York City with the promise that he would put them to worthy use. After flipping land west of Keyspan Park to a residential developer for $90 million, Mr. Sitt is left with the four-block area next to the Cyclone roller coaster, the so-called amusement core. Mr. Sitt contends that 975 residential units—an unspecified mix of time-shares and condos—would provide the eyes and ears (and pocketbooks) that would make the complex work year round, to say nothing of compensating for the losses he expects from running the amusement area. On a total square-foot basis, according to figures from Thor Equities, Mr. Sitt’s development firm, the apartments would constitute 34 percent of the square footage of the complex, while amusements would constitute only 14 percent. (Hotels, retail and parking would make up the rest.) The actual land area covered by the footprints of the residential towers would be much smaller, however—in part because one of the towers would rise 50 stories. Seems the units have jumped another 275 more than last reported by Thor. And they are open about the obvious diminished amusement area which now would consist of only 14 percent. In the report, Dick Zigun who for the most part supports Thor, said, “Thor is not necessarily the enemy. A lot of what they are proposing is exactly what we want.”...“We want affluent people from around the world to come and spend a week here and spend a lot of money. But people who come here for a week want the noise and excitement; people raising families complain. People renting apartments across the street complain on a regular basis as it is.” He added, “If Thor presented a plan that was 85 percent amusements and 15 percent condos, I would not vote for it—but it would not surprise me if it went through.” The debate which until recently has been dubious, now stands between what specific area Thor is intending to use as residential. Laid out in September 2005 the CIDC approved a "Strategic Plan" which permitted residential construction north and west of Keyspan. But Thor is continually focusing on the area that is reserved for "active and historic amusements" Though the city still stresses that the two types of zoning next to each other: amusements and residential would not be appropriate, they are leaving open the question of how they would co-exist. Which leaves the debate still wide open and not much further ahead. At least until the Department of City Planning issues zoning recommendations by this summer. And the CIDC begins the land-use process by the end of the year. The process itself takes almost a year. Though, Joe Sitt said he was led to believe that the city would approve residential uses after a statement by Bloomberg calling for "a diverse use of a piece of land if it’s really going to succeed.” The city said they will be carefull to make sure that all the constituencies are on board. In the article Joe Sitt demonstrates that he will not be intimidated by the city. Thor will go to the extent of blighting Coney Island by flattening everything it owns. This is the weapon they will use to make the city relent and give in to their demands. It's now a matter of seeing how strong and tough Ms. Burden will be in standing up against Thor's hammer. |
Quote:
Is'nt it funny how these urban planning officials dont have anything to say when an area rots and lays dormant like ConeyIsland has for decades and all of a sudden when a developer musters enough guts to take on this project they threaten to mothball the whole thing over such a ridiculous notion as that there should not be condos next to the amusement area. LISTEN PEOPLE THERE ARE CONDOS EVERYWHERE, LET IT GO... This Amanda Burden needs to stop trying to get her name in the papers and do something constructive to make sure everyone is satisfied with the conclusion. Because if Thor backs out the whole city of Brooklyn and Coney Island will take a hit for a long time, all because of some Ivy League educated upper west side high society "dame" who's Bloombergs pal. |
Quote:
|
I got an idea of what Sitt envisions as a "amusement complex." There's a place n Denver called "The Pavillions." Please God, don't let C.I. turn into that kind of horrible place.
|
I think they might actually do this one right. The only thing I'm worried about is that since it's going be on the beach, and so far north, it wont draw too many people in the winter. The fact that the water park will be indoors will help stave off the winter losses, but I'm still a little concerned. For the summer monthes though, it'll be insane.
BTW, what's up with the Randalls Island water park? I have a feeling that will be a bit more of a success than a water park at coney island, almost to the point I'd say screw the water park, just go with roller coasters(or maybe a mixed ride???). So far, I like the plans. The stuff about condos though, are there any solid plans for that? I'm glad to see they put a ferry link into the plan. Hopefully it'll also run out to Long Island and down south to Jersey. Perhaps something connecting all the area amusement attractions(Randalls Island, South Street Seaport, Coney Island, Seaside Park(Toms River, NJ)), and Jones Beach. Obviously other stops would be made, but I think having all these waterfront attractions is just screaming ferry. |
yes coney island look kind ugly but I love to go there. I love going away from the big city to nice ocean breeze and walk with russians. Jajaja. :) well when I move to nyc I will visit more. I see new plans to change. Well that is good. make more beautiful for new people and kids. :cool:
|
Quote:
Sorry, this does not work as a class struggle. The people who enjoy Coney Island are not WASPy Ivy Leaguers, they are regular working folks of all colors. Try visiting that stretch of beach during a warm summer weekend to see who is using it. I agree that it needs sprucing up, but there must be some way to preserve this historic part of the City for everyone. |
CYCLONE SWIRLS AROUND CONEY ISLAND BUILDER
By RICH CALDER New York Post Online Edition March 26, 2007 -- City officials have come out swinging against the developer promising a Vegas-glitz makeover for Coney Island's prime real estate - saying he's nothing but a huckster with a history of flipping properties for a fast buck. Several officials told The Post they're concerned that Joseph Sitt's next selling spree could involve the massive assemblage of beachfront land his Thor Equities has bought up in Coney Island - especially if City Hall doesn't allow his planned $2 billion entertainment complex to include luxury housing. "The guy has a track record of flipping land for big bucks," said one source close to the project. "He's done it already in Coney Island and other Brooklyn projects like [Downtown Brooklyn's] Albee Square Mall, and who's to say he won't play the city again?" Chuck Reichenthal, a member of the city's Coney Island Development Corp., is worried Thor will hold up the plan either by selling out or by holding out to see if the next mayor is willing to allow the housing. "I look out my [Surf Avenue] office window, and what I see now is very sad," he said. "They're beginning to create a ghost town." The war over Coney Island's future came to a boil last month when City Planning Chairwoman Amanda Burden said at a Crain's breakfast presentation that there was no room for housing in the seaside plan. "Amusements are incompatible with immediate adjacent residential use," Burden said. Lynn Kelly, president of the CIDC, was more cautious about criticizing Sitt. "Is there a concern? Sure. But we're moving forward with our rezoning plan, and we're hopeful that, once it's complete, the developer will create something great for Coney Island," she said. Other officials were more skeptical. They note that when Sitt bought the Albee Square Mall on Fulton Street five years ago for $24 million, he talked about giving the gritty site the same type of Vegas-style makeover he's now pitching for Coney Island. Instead, Sitt spent $10 million rehabbing the mall - which he renamed The Gallery at Fulton Street - but never followed through on his grand plan. Then after the city rezoned to allow for larger development there, Sitt sat on the mall before finally agreeing last January to sell it for $125 million. "It's a great deal for him and it's going to bring larger-scale development there by the new buyer, but it's not going to be the 'Bellagio of malls' that Sitt said he was going to turn it into," a source said. In Coney Island, Sitt last year sold one of the properties he bought for $90 million - a 168,000-square-foot tract known as the Washington Bath House site - after the city said it would allow residential development there. A spokesman for Thor Equities, Lee Silberstein, insisted that the company isn't planning to back out of Coney Island. Thor is "confident that working [with the Bloomberg administration], it will be able to rebuild Coney Island as a place worthy of its great legacy," he said. http://www.nypost.com/seven/03262007/photos/news002.jpg rich.calder@nypost.com Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc. |
CONEY IS. CONDO PULLBACK
By RICH CALDER March 28, 2007 -- A developer proposing a $2 billion, Vegas-style entertainment complex for Coney Island is desperately trying to convince City Hall to back it by shifting more than 900 planned luxury condo units away from the boardwalk and into one 40-story tower. Project spokesman Lee Silberstein revealed at a recent community meeting that Thor Equities is considering confining the project's controversial residential housing to Stillwell Avenue's west side near Surf Avenue. That's a change from the previous proposal, which called for spreading the housing out in four Stillwell locations within the proposed 425,000-square-foot amusement complex. The new plan would dramatically reduce a 515-foot-high tower slated for the Stillwell boardwalk to a height similar to the nearby 262-foot Parachute Jump; that tower would contain time-share residences. The revisions would allow riders of the nearby Cyclone roller coaster to retain Parachute Jump views. Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc. |
Any move for upper class housing, or even time shares, IMO, is a dissaster.
|
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/76404
Protest Against Coney Island Development by Kathleen Horan March 30, 2007 —The beach, the boardwalk and the Cyclone are just days away, as Coney Island prepares to open for business this Sunday. But before the season begins, a group against some of the area's proposed development will protest later today. WNYC's Kathleen Horan has more. REPORTER: The protesters are part of a group called “Save Coney Island.” They're fighting the plan to build luxury condominiums on the boardwalk. The condos are part of the new re-design of Coney Island by Thor Equities, the company that's bought much of Coney Island's prime real estate over the past few years. Diana Carlin owns a popular souvenir shop on the boardwalk and says she's not against change but it should be suited to the environment. CARLIN: I think it should be a lot more but it should be an amusement park - not luxury condos. REPORTER: A spokesman for Thor Equities says the company shares the view that Coney Island needs to be saved which is why it has proposed a plan to invest $2 billion in its future. A spokesperson for the city's Economic Development Corporation says they're still doing outreach with all the stakeholders and have not yet approved a final strategic plan. http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index...id=9&aid=68231 Protesters: No Condos In Coney March 30, 2007 Costumes and color lined the steps of City Hall Friday in protest of redevelopment plans for Coney Island. Protesters marched in a "No Condos in Coney" demonstration, to fight part of real estate developer Thor Equities' $2 billion plan to rezone the area for residential use -- which they say will take away from the park's character. "What we do not want to have happen is to have condominium development for the well-to-do to have a great white-sound, south-facing beach as their own playground,” said Richard Egan, the co-host of the annual Mermaid Parade on Coney Island. “It's an amusement district, it's for the community, it's for people to come to and visit,” said Miss Cyclone 2007 Angie Pontani. “It's not a place for luxury condominiums. It really speaks against its history and I think the real promise of its future." Thor Equities says the majority of the land they purchased will be used for an indoor water park and other related entertainment uses. |
http://www.villagevoice.com/images/logo.gif
Coney Island's Last Ride? The Bulldozer! Behind the scenes, a scary game of chicken between the city and a developer who dreams of high-rise condos that won't amuse you by Neil deMause April 10th, 2007 11:48 AM The season's first visitors to Coney Island can already see that the batting cages and the go-karts along Stillwell Avenue are gone, as is a miniature golf course that went up just a few years ago. From the base of the Wonder Wheel on West 12th Street all the way to the bus lot behind Nathan's, bulldozers have cut a large swath, leaving little more than barren asphalt and a few stray tires surrounded by a plywood fence. It looks like a construc- tion site. And that's what it's meant to be, according to its owner, Thor Equities. Two summers ago, Thor CEO Joseph Sitt announced a huge redevelopment project in Coney Island, featuring an indoor water park, a hotel, and even a rooftop landing pad for blimps. All this would be financed by beachfront condos towering as high as 50 stories over the boardwalk. Sitt says high-priced housing is vital to his business plan; the city insists that condos in Coney Island would violate the hard-fought rezoning plan that the community and the city's Economic Development Corporation have hashed out over the past several years. Thor's plans sparked a recent "Save Coney Island" protest on the steps of City Hall, including marching bands and at least one mermaid (with sideburns). But what's at stake is far more than a view of the Parachute Jump unobstructed by balconied towers. While Thor denies it, denizens of the amusement district fear the developer is preparing to raze and leave fallow as much as two-thirds of Coney's amusement district. The idea would be to hold the heart of Coney Island hostage to force the city to rezone and let Thor cash in on condos. If Sitt follows through with stated threats to wait for a new mayoral administration in 2010, Coney Island's already diminished amusement district could spend years as a torn-up wasteland, leaving only the Cyclone, Dino's Wonder Wheel Park, Sideshows by the Seashore, and Nathan's standing amid a vast empty plain. "You're still going to have a beach," Charles Denson, an author of two books on Coney Island history, says of a post-Sitt era. "You're still going to have a boardwalk, if they still fix it up. And the memory of Coney Island will survive. But I think people will be disappointed when they come down and just see vacant lots." Dianna Carlin, a boardwalk shopkeeper who was forced to close last month after a run-in with Thor, says company officials "are sacrificing the livelihood of small businesses such as mine and using the prospect of a shut-down Coney Island as leverage against the city in their negotiations." This summer's demolitions, she warns, are just "the beginning of what is to be a vicious war over the rezoning of Coney Island." Coney Island has been considered ripe for redevelopment seemingly ever since there was a Coney Island. By the 1940s, two of Coney's three Golden Age amusement parks, Dreamland and Luna Park, had succumbed to fire; Robert Moses, the city's great redeveloper who never hesitated to remake a neighborhood with a sweep of his hand, replaced them with the New York Aquarium and the Luna Park Houses. Moses also bulldozed the ancient working-class neighborhood known as the Gut, handing over the land to Fred Trump, father of Donald, to build still more high-rise housing. Once Steeplechase Park, with its famed mechanical horse-race ride and soaring glass gaming pavilion, shut down in the mid '60s, all that was left was an echo of the beachfront's onetime glory: the landmarked Cyclone and Wonder Wheel, and around them a collection of small-time amusements offering arcade games, Skee-Ball, and the occasional carnival ride and spook house. But the crowds never stopped coming. In the 1970s, when the great old bathhouses along the boardwalk seemed to be burning daily, millions of people a year still visited. Even now, the tattooed hipsters who visit Sideshows by the Seashore or the annual Mermaid Parade are still far outnumbered by the throngs of mostly working-class families who descend on Coney Island every summer for the same reasons they always have: sand, sun, and entertainment, all for the price of a subway ride and a fistful of game tokens. "It's always been popular with people of small means who can't afford to go anywhere else," Denson says. It's also served as a place for new immigrants to gain a foothold in running businesses. "You didn't need a lot of money to get in," he adds. "You could run a game or an attraction for the season and make enough money to get ahead." Rumored casinos and other phantom developments never materialized, and for decades it seemed Coney Island would remain in slowly crumbling stasis. Then, in 2001, Mayor Rudy Giuliani spent $39 million to build KeySpan Park for the minor league Brooklyn Cyclones on the old Steeplechase site. (He also razed the derelict Thunderbolt next door, sending in bulldozers at 6 a.m. to pre-empt those who were hoping to have the 75-year-old wooden coaster landmarked and perhaps reopened.) Another $240 million in MTA money followed to build the airy new Stillwell Avenue subway terminal, and city-built comfort stations and playgrounds began sprouting along the beachfront. In 2003, the city convened the Coney Island Development Corporation (CIDC), made up mostly of well-connected local business owners and city functionaries, to help shape the neighborhood's future. The strategic plan that emerged presented a bifurcated Coney: West of Stillwell Avenue, on the mostly vacant blocks around the baseball stadium, would go mixed-income housing, with the ground floors devoted to "entertainment-oriented" retail such as restaurants and gaming arcades. To the east, the area currently zoned "C7" for amusements would remain sacrosanct, to protect Coney Island's traditional attractions from neighbors who might complain about "Bump-bump-bump your ass off!" blaring into their apartment windows every night. Joe Sitt, however, had plans of his own. In March 2005, Sitt bought the old Washington Baths site west of the stadium for $13 million; 14 months later, once it had become clear that the CIDC plan would allow housing on that site, he flipped it to an investment group for $90 million. Thor poured this money into more purchases, this time in the heart of the amusement district. By the time he purchased the land under the Astroland amusement park last fall, Sitt had title to virtually all of central Coney Island save for the isolated islands of Nathan's and Dino's, whose owners decided to stay put, and the city-owned Cyclone, run by Astroland under a long-term lease. A big-box-store developer who made his name and fortune with the Ashley Stewart line of plus-size clothing stores, Sitt reassured anyone within earshot that he was a local boy, having grown up in nearby Gravesend; he skipped school so often to head for the boardwalk, he said, that his friends called him "Joey Coney Island." He boasted of talks with movie theater chains, with Ripley's Believe It or Not, with Nickelodeon for a "family hotel" (with time-shared condos). For the amusement district, Thor issued a steady stream of artists' renderings, each more dazzlingly grandiose than the last, featuring futuristic buildings surrounded by holographic mermaids, a giant elephant with a "Mom" tattoo, and, inexplicably, Batman. Locals, who had seen so many plans come and go over the years, were cautiously optimistic. "It is the natural order of things for New York City to keep rebuilding itself," Coney Island USA director and Mermaid Parade impresario Dick Zigun told the Voice two summers ago regarding the early plans. "It could be exciting." The first signs of trouble came last year, when Thor handed out month-to-month leases at increased rents to tenants of its newly acquired three-block stretch of storefronts along the boardwalk. Two refused to sign: Steve Bitzekas, who runs the Ocean Grill House west of Stillwell, and Carlin, proprietor of the Lola Staar Souvenir Boutique next door to the historic Ruby's restaurant. For Carlin, the main sticking point was a gag order that would prohibit her from saying anything in public about Coney Island redevelopment. Worse yet, she says, violations would be decided by Thor Equities, not a court of law. Finally, in January, Carlin gave in and agreed to Thor's lease. "I went to their office and met with them and signed the agreement," she says. "The following day, Sam Sabin from Thor Equities called me up—he had to talk to me about something really important. I asked him, 'Did this have anything to do with the agreement I signed yesterday?' And he said, 'No, no, everything's fine with that. I just have to talk to you about something private.' " The next day, she says, "he came to my studio and served me with eviction papers." Thor spokesman Tom Corsillo wouldn't comment on Carlin's situation, beyond saying that "all tenants on the boardwalk were offered the same opportunity to renew their agreements" and "a couple did not." What seems likely, though, is that Sitt had gotten fed up with the city's refusal to allow condos on his land and decided to start playing hardball. On January 30, Thor spokesman Lee Silberstein told the Post that without condos, the entire construction project would be scrapped. Two weeks later, at a Crain's breakfast meeting, city planning director Amanda Burden countered that "amusements are incompatible with immediately adjacent residential use." It was about then that Thor's bulldozers arrived on West 12th Street and the demolitions began. "Joe Sitt had always been very friendly with me and told me that if I ever needed anything, just to give him a call," Carlin recalls. "So I called him every hour to try to get through to him." Finally, she reached Thor lawyer Joseph Matalon, who, according to Carlin, "said that their decision on whether or not they were going to proceed with this eviction against me was contingent upon the results of their negotiations with the city"—no condos, no lease. "He was telling me," she says, "that I was being used as a bargaining pawn: We're serious about building these condos on the boardwalk, and if we can't do that, we're just going to destroy Coney Island." At the same time, Astroland operator Carol Hill Albert, who'd sold out to Thor for $30 million in November, was approaching her new landlord with an offer to extend her lease into 2008 if development plans were stalled. Instead, she was told, the park her family had operated since 1962 had to be out by the end of December so Thor could "clear the property." According to Corsillo, the company intends to turn the land into a "Coney Park" with a hotel and a roller coaster that would dip under the boardwalk. Thor hasn't supplied opening or groundbreaking dates, though, and given that this is a company that has previously floated such ever-changing plans as an offshore Ferris wheel and a roller coaster that would run through buildings, locals are dubious. "I haven't seen any plans," Albert says. "What they're going to put here is very much a question." For historian Denson, it's a familiar story. In 1966, he recalls, Fred Trump bought Steeplechase Park in hopes of building high-rise apartments. Then, when the Lindsay administration balked at a zoning change, Trump razed the historic complex, hosting a party where guests smashed the Steeplechase pavilion's famed glass facade with bricks. "He figured once it was torn down," Denson says, "they would have to let him build it. The city didn't—they took it over for a park—but Trump made a huge profit." Joe Sitt, says Denson, "has taken a page from the Fred Trump playbook: If you don't let me have my way, I'm going to tear everything down, and you'll have a vacant lot." The most damning indication that Joe Sitt is a mere "flipper"—less interested in building anything than in buying land, getting it rezoned, and selling it for a quick buck—is that he's done that before, say his detractors. At the other end of Brooklyn is another working-class mecca that was likewise purchased by Thor Equities amid promises of a rebirth, only to end up the target of a get-rich-quick condo scheme, while local business owners were left struggling to survive. The Albee Square Mall off Fulton Street, with its mix of discount jewelry shops, fast-food joints, and a venerable Toys "R" Us, may seem an unlikely cultural icon. As the focal point of the nearby Fulton Mall shopping drag, though, it's long been a popular hangout, earning a memorable shout-out from Biz Markie on his 1988 debut album Goin' Off ("Any other shoppers that try to compare/There ain't no way they could hang out with Albee Square"). Two decades later, even as neighboring Fort Greene and Boerum Hill fill up with young white gentrifiers, the mall's clientele remains overwhelmingly African American, as are many of its shopkeepers and cart vendors. In 2001, Sitt bought the mall from Forest City Ratner for $25 million and, say merchants, promised to rehab it. Some changes were made: The entrance got a new facade, and the apparel store Forever 21 took up residence in the outdoor storefront along Fulton Street. Thor claims it spent $10 million on what it renamed the Gallery at Fulton Street but did not respond to repeated requests for an itemized accounting. Inside, there's little sign of an influx of cash. Escalators are out of order (for more than a year, shopkeepers say), the half-empty food court bears a jury-rigged patchwork of floor tiles, and the bathrooms are a disaster. "Before [Sitt] got there, it was ragtag, but the place was full, and it was making money," says Randy Leigh, a board member of Families United for Racial and Economic Equality (FUREE), which has been organizing the mall's shopkeepers and customers. "When Thor bought it, [Sitt] got rid of all the amenities. He got rid of the restaurants, so people coming to shop had no place to eat. He claims he does so much, and all he does is run the place down." Shortly after Sitt bought Albee Square, the Bloomberg administration launched a massive rezoning of downtown Brooklyn intended to carpet the district with office towers. Sitt presented the city with plans for a 60-story combined hotel/office/condo tower on the site of the mall's parking garage. Instead, in early February, a different consortium of developers announced they had agreed to buy the mall, demolish it, and erect a still larger skyscraper to take advantage of the new zoning. Thor's take: $125 million, for a profit of a cool 400 percent. Albee Square's shopkeepers only learned their stores were targeted for the wrecking ball when they read about it in the paper. Eric Waltower, a former street vendor along Fulton Street who made the leap to a storefront selling women's accessories two years ago, says his time in the mall "has been great—other than they're trying to sell the place without informing me." He and his wife have put at least $15,000 into the store, he says, an outlay they'll have to eat if evicted. Whether that will happen is anyone's guess. The city's Department of Housing Preservation and Development, which must sign off on the condo plan because it involves city-owned land in an urban renewal site, abruptly canceled a scheduled hearing last month without explanation; FUREE organizers say they later learned it was because the consortium's housing developer had backed out. Now shopkeepers are in limbo, waiting to hear from their landlord about their future. "You cannot get in touch with them," says Teddy Priftakis, who has run the Top Potato in the mall's food court for the past 26 years. "Since three years ago, nobody returns my calls." FUREE has likewise struck out in repeated attempts to meet with Sitt or other Thor officials. "If what he's doing here happens in Coney Island," says Leigh, "Coney Island's in a lot of trouble." Escapades like the Albee Square bait and switch haven't won Joe Sitt any friends at City Hall, according to sources who've spoken with city officials. Publicly, both sides say that "negotiations continue," but it looks more like a game of chicken, with Sitt and the city each waiting to see who blinks first. Last month, Sitt told the Observer that the city was forcing him to "mothball this entire thing for five to 10 years." (Asked under what conditions Sitt would be forced to "mothball" it, Thor spokesman Corsillo said he'd get back to the Voice, then never did.) In the past week or so, Sitt has switched to a more conciliatory tone, offering to condense his condos into one building west of Stillwell—albeit a 40-story one—and approaching some Coney merchants, including Carlin, about new leases. The city, meanwhile, has held firm, with CIDC president Lynn Kelly's public statements swearing allegiance to the strategic plan—which means no residential buildings in the amusement zone. Yet the city itself isn't blameless for the mess. By declaring at the very beginning of the CIDC's deliberations that Coney Island should become a "year-round" attraction—in part to provide more than seasonal jobs for residents of the economically depressed housing projects that Moses scattered across the beachfront in the '60s—the city set in motion two powerful forces. First, it attracted the attention of developers like Sitt, who would never have thrown around multimillion-dollar offers without the prospect of evicting the kiddie rides for more lucrative ventures like restaurants and movie theaters, which haven't been allowed previously under C7 zoning. Simultaneously, the city spooked the traditional amusement operators, who saw little room for their inherently seasonal attractions in the new Coney Island. Asked why she sold the land her family had owned for nearly 45 years, Astroland's Albert says that "all the discussion was that the city wanted a year-round entertainment area"—and roofing over Astroland wasn't in her budget. For now, Astroland sports "Open for 2007" signs, and its pirate ship will swing thrill-seekers high above Surf Avenue for one fi nal season. Albert, who says that before Thor came to town she was about to embark on a set of major purchases ("We were going to buy a new spinning coaster—I loved that ride"), is instead scrambling to find a smaller space where she can relocate some of her rides. "You can't support a payroll of 350 people surrounded by a construction site," she says, "whereas a smaller operation could survive that." Though Sitt declared last week that he's willing to keep Astroland open in some form for 2008, Albert says she's heard nothing from the developer. She's asked the Parks Department about renting out West 10th Street, which runs between her current property and the Cyclone, but so far nothing has been finalized. Meanwhile, she says she has to decide within weeks whether to sell off her remaining rides and close up shop for good. "Although half of Coney Island as we have known it will not be here next year, Coney Island will be alive and open next year," insists Zigun. He rattles off the places that will still be around: the Cyclone, Dino's, Zigun's Sideshows by the Seashore, the El Dorado bumper cars, Nathan's, the aquarium. "There will be a smaller Coney Island, but plenty to do here next year." Others are less optimistic. Albert says others in the amusement industry have told her that even if Thor started construction promptly, the disruption would drive attendance down by 25 percent to 50 percent, particularly among school groups that would face traffic and parking tie-ups. In a low-margin business like amusements, she worries that could leave the remaining operators one rainy summer away from economic ruin. Meanwhile, the biggest game being played on Coney Island is the game of chicken between Sitt and the city. Privately, many Coney Islanders say that if Bloomberg really wants to call Sitt's bluff, he'll threaten to swoop in and seize any vacant land by eminent domain. But no one thinks that's likely. More realistically, the best-case scenario is that once the city starts the rezoning process in June, Sitt will realize his condo dream is a non-starter and either quickly agree to build something that fits the CIDC's vision or sell to someone who does. In the worst, the stalemate drags on for years, with Sitt shuttering every building he owns—or flipping the land to another developer who likewise sits on the property while deciding how to develop it. Even that, though, would be preferable to many than the city allowing condos on the boardwalk, which they see as the death knell for Coney Island as New Yorkers have known it. "An amusement area like Coney Island is organic," says Denson, who runs the Coney Island Historical Society and with Carlin is the driving force behind the Save Coney Island movement. "It's transformed year by year—new rides are brought in, new attractions. But once residential is put in there, it's fixed. For a hundred years, that property is gone." http://www.villagevoice.com/images/generic/x.gif |
Excellent article.
|
I wish Joe Sitt would get up and leave.
|
Very good article. This dude definately seems like bad news. Hopefully CIDC will have enough power to save the area
|
It's interesting, because this is a situation where EVERYONE supports development and the developer is balking. Joe Sitt is bad, bad news - and a liar to boot.
|
Quote:
|
|
Parks Dep’t in Talks To Transfer Coney Land To Developers
Should Be Used for Parks, Say Locals By Sarah Ryley Brooklyn Daily Eagle CONEY ISLAND — Taconic Investment Partners is looking to expand the footprint of its planned waterfront development, anchored by the former Child’s Restaurant, and is negotiating with the city to do so by using adjacent land controlled by the Parks Department. Ari Shalam, a Taconic senior vice president, says the negotiations are complicated because the transfer of land controlled by the city’s Department of Parks and Recreation requires state legislation, and the replacement of an equal amount of land elsewhere in the vicinity. Several people in the community, when made aware of the negotiations, say a private developer shouldn’t get control of the land. They say the vacant land and waterfront parking lots should be turned into a public park or used for amusements accessible to the working class, such as a new home for Astroland Park. “They want to put luxury housing in, but when you come down here it’s a very democratic place — you see every variety of human being that you can imagine,” says Coney Island resident Ida Sanhoff. “When they put in this luxury housing, how are those people going to feel about going to the beach and sitting next to all these poor people?” Taconic, which controls a 99-year lease of the landmarked Child’s building and owns an adjacent vacant block, in addition to vacant property north of KeySpan Park, plans to build a mixed-use development on the waterfront site. Plans include ground-floor “entertainment retail ,” housing and “food-related uses” in the restaurant. “If the city is thinking of trading valuable parkland that’s on the waterfront, the most important questions are, what is the community getting out of that and how is the public being included in these decisions,” says Geoffrey Croft, president of NYC Park Advocates. “I’m very wary of parkland being taken away for non-park purposes,” says Croft. “There’s very little park space and playgrounds in the community, so any opportunity to utilize that land and build a playground should be top priority.” Broken Promises The parkland east of Taconic’s property is a parking lot for KeySpan, and represents a history of broken promises to the community. Until a decade ago, it was to be part of a year-round amusement fantasyland, spanning from West 15th to West 21st streets, that would have revived rides from the famed Steeplechase Park destroyed by Fred Trump in the late 1960s. Mayor Rudolph Giuliani nixed that idea during his second term, instead promising a community “SportsPlex” on the property, a contingency for the approval of his less-popular minor league stadium. SportsPlex died shortly after the first Cyclones game, but some say the money’s still allocated for it somewhere in the cosmos of city budget. Today, a small soccer field and the recently re-lit Parachute Jump are nestled alongside the sloping entryway to KeySpan and its expansive parking lot, a small fulfillment of both those promises. The Parks Department also controls a waterfront vacant lot next to Child’s — overgrown, at least shoulder-high, with weeds — and a parking lot behind the building. Combined, at 144,905 square feet, the two lots are slightly larger than the property now occupied by Astroland Park, which will be evicted by developer Thor Equities after this season. Carol Hill Albert, whose family has operated Astroland for 45 years, says she’d be very interested in moving her rides west of KeySpan, to land owned by the Parks Department. For more than three decades, the family has held the operating agreement to run the city-owned Cyclone, which occupies parkland next to the New York Aquarium. Albert has, in the past, offered to help the city pay to move Astroland’s rides anywhere in Coney Island, and recently agreed to take them off the auction block in response to pleas from elected officials. But despite the ostensibly fervent effort on the part of the city to keep Astroland in Coney Island, Albert says she often feels put on the back burner, in favor of the big developers like Taconic and Thor Equities, and left to fend for herself. “The reality is that there’s not a lot of land that the city owns within the amusement district [besides the street beds],” says Lynn Kelly, president of the Coney Island Development Corporation (CIDC). Tale of Two Coneys The “incredible branding opportunity” found in Coney Island, with its storied past and distinct graphic identity, has been held hostage over the decades by disparate ownership, vacant parcels and patchwork ownership, says Kelly. “Without enhancing the amusement district, we’ve lost that brand.” “Coney East” is the term Kelly uses for the area on that side of KeySpan Park, where she says the “enhanced amusements” should go. Thor Equities purchased most of that property, with controversial plans for a $2 billion mixed-use amusement development that would also include residential housing, although these plans are in the process of being modified after the city rejected the housing portion. Thor Equities has already cleared away the miniature golf course, go-cart tracks, flea market and batting range; Astroland Park and the boardwalk businesses are looking at their last season. Taconic owns property in “Coney West,” and the vacant lots north of Surf Avenue. All of this property is within the city’s only district zoned exclusively for amusements — while Deno’s Wonder Wheel Park (which has not been sold) and Astroland are certainly the heart of that district, KeySpan Park is squarely in the center. CIDC spokesman Jorge Montalvo says the agency is working very hard to find a new home for Astroland, but that locating the park in Coney West wouldn’t be feasible. © Brooklyn Daily Eagle 2007 |
Coney Island Project Is Scaled Back, but Critics Are Skeptical The developer who wants to remake Coney Island’s amusement district has a new plan and says that you’re going to love it. Joseph J. Sitt, who says his company has spent $120 million buying up land underneath and around the rides, said on Friday that he had “rolled over” in response to the criticism of his earlier plans for an entertainment and residential complex. So the looming 40-story tower planned for the Boardwalk at Stillwell Avenue is gone. So are the hundreds of rental apartments and luxury condominiums in the old plan. The new proposal is less dense, he said, but has more of “the new, the edgy, and the outlandish” rides and attractions that America’s first resort was once known for. “This is our way of showing the New York community that we’re responsive to what they want,” said Mr. Sitt, the founder of Thor Equities, which buys and develops commercial, residential and retail properties nationwide. “Our design, in all its greatness, is a way of showing the world what Coney Island can be.” Who could complain? Well. Robert Lieber, president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation, described Mr. Sitt’s new plan as a “wolf dressed up as a sheep.” Mr. Lieber, along with neighborhood leaders and other city officials, had expressed fears that residents of new apartment buildings would not fit comfortably with the noisy, all-hours amusement district that would be preserved between West Eighth Street and the Aquarium and the minor league baseball stadium at West 16th Street. The new plan keeps the concept of a new glass-enclosed water park, but instead of apartments calls for three hotels, including more than 400 time-share units, along with restaurants, shops, movie theaters and high-tech arcades. The latest renderings depict a pulsating entertainment complex with an Elephant Colossus statue and architecture that evokes the old Luna Park and Dreamland amusement parks. Mr. Lieber and others say that the time-share units look an awful lot like apartments and that the complex looks more like a mall than Coney Island. “He came in last week and presented a plan that had essentially the same density, but dressed it up with hotels and time shares,” Mr. Lieber said. “The building heights still exceed the 271-foot Parachute Jump,” a Coney Island landmark. “And he’s looking for a huge subsidy from the city. North of $100 million.” The city has been working with local residents and property owners for nearly three years on a master plan for what everyone agrees is a dowdy area. The idea, they say, is to preserve the democratic, open-air quality of Coney Island’s culture and amusement district on the south side of Surf Avenue, while allowing for high-rise residential and retail development set apart from the rides, on the north side of Surf. The Economic Development Corporation, along with the City Planning Department and the Coney Island Development Corporation, have been devising a rezoning proposal for Coney Island that will go through a public review process later this year. “The community and the Coney Island Development Corporation have all indicated that residential and amusements don’t go together,” said Chuck Reichenthal, district manager of Community Board 13. But Mr. Sitt says he believes the changes being proposed are too restrictive and would undercut his ability to redevelop the area. Everyone agrees that the shrunken hulk of the amusement district is worth preserving, at the edge of a beach that still draws tens of thousands of people on the summer weekends. The question is how to turn it into a year-round attraction. “Coney Island has changed its faces many times,” Mr. Reichenthal said. “The last Luna Park was in the mid-1940s. Steeplechase came down in the ’60s. But that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t remained a magnet. There’s a lot to do when people come down here. It’s still the place for people who don’t have a huge amount of money in their pocket to come and have a good time.” Mr. Sitt, who is equal parts real estate entrepreneur and supersalesman, has been engaged in a game of chicken with the city over the future of Coney Island. Earlier this year, his team claimed that his project “isn’t a financially feasible investment” without high-rise housing. Over the winter, he knocked down the batting cages and the go-kart park in a move that harked back to the bad old days of empty lots. Now he has taken the housing, at least all the units labeled apartments, out of his proposal, and he is betting that his new $1.5 billion plan will win the overwhelming support of local residents, if not all the officials at City Hall. The hotels, which range from 25 to 32 stories, have been moved to mid-block, away from the Boardwalk. Mr. Sitt has already spent a large sum buying up 10 acres behind the Nathan’s Famous hot dog stand from 30 different families, including the descendants of George C. Tilyou, founder of Steeplechase Park, and the owners of Astroland, an amusement park that embraces the 270-foot Astro Tower. Astroland is scheduled to close in September. The Cyclone roller coaster, which is a city landmark, will remain open. Hear his pitch: The hotels, Mr. Sitt said, would offer black residents not only jobs, but careers. Russian immigrants, who enjoy a “quality of life and activity by the water,” would flock to the hotels and nightclubs. Jewish and Italian-American residents would get “quality retail, bookstores and entertainment venues. ” As for everyone else, “what’s better than having fabulous restaurants, catering halls, shows and concerts?” “Tell me, what issue any one of these constituencies would have with our plan,” he said. “We’re asking for motherhood, motherhood. Apple pie, Chevrolet and Coney Island.” Pause for breath. “Maybe I sound like a salesman,” Mr. Sitt said, “but I’m passionate about this.” Jeff Persily, who has worked in the amusement district since 1960 and owns a penny arcade and other property on Bowery Street, agrees with the notion that the amusement area must be turned into a year-round attraction to survive. The city needs to change the zoning to allow for larger buildings, hotels, apartments, parking and retail, he said. “They have a vision of open-air amusements,” Mr. Persily said. “We can’t afford to spend millions on new rides and only be open three months of the year.” Would he sell out to Mr. Sitt? “At the end of the day, combining all the properties and building amusements, hotels and residential would be a wonderful thing for New York,” he said. “We’re talking about creating not hundreds of jobs but many thousands of jobs. I love Coney Island. I’d love to see it become what it once was when I was a kid.” Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company |
NEWS ALERT! Major Announcent From Thor Equities
http://bp1.blogger.com/_9Gsu_hMGnVk/...52Bwebsite.jpg http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/ Kinetic Carnival has received an exciting e-mail announcement from The Marino Organization with great news from Thor Equities that may make Joseph Sitt and Thor Equities as the hero of Coney Island's rebirth. The announcement from Thor Equities spokesman e-mail read: After listening to the comments, questions and concerns of members of the Coney Island community, as well as people all over the country and throughout the world, Thor Equities has completely eliminated the residential component of its proposed plan. Thor will instead focus on amusement and entertainment uses worthy of Coney Island's spectacular legacy. Thor now has a plan that is compatible with the City's strategic plan and looks forward to working with the community and the City to return Coney Island to its former glory. -Tom Corsillo Spokesman, Thor EquitiesThis is super exciting news for Coney Island. Now we are all anxious to see what new preliminary plans and designs Thor Equities will release. It's been said by many that there are ways to make profit on amusements. And that residential components in Coney Island is not a solution to Coney's seasonality issues. Coney was never about building amusement retail for the residents down the street. Coney (like a CIUSA poster pointed out) has always been about going to Coney Island. There have been many wonderful ideas talked about on the Coney Island USA bulletin board. Therefore, it's time to set up a new kind of forum where the community would specifically be able to express their creative ideas in order to further connect to Thor Equites, the city, and the design team(s) and help generate ideas. Even though Thor Equities will continue to hire the experts in the amusement industry - there has also been a good degree of opposition to previous drawings and plans. A positive critical mass could establish a creative collective that would greatly add to the survival of the Coney Island spirit and character. We thank Joe Sitt and Thor Equities to face the courage and dare to dream to make a reality, the tough business that is amusements. Follow discussion on: CIUSA board |
Well, that's good news.
Condos just don't belong there. Maybe a few blocks away, but just not right where the main amusement area is. |
I'm skeptical that having no condos whatsoever is such a good thing. I think you need a mix, it's that simple.
|
Quote:
|
They just don't mix and if they do, the amusements end up losing because tenants will eventually complain (especially with the onset of 311) about noise, crowds, litter, lights, etc., etc., etc.
By the way, I thought we (not necessarily you and me, ablarc) went through this discussion somewhere here before. |
I took a friend visiting to the city to Coney Island yesterday. We loved it, although it was really windy. I have a few pics if anyone would like to see.
|
Sure, why not. No one here ever dislikes pics. ;)
|
/\Putting residential in this area is a sure fire way to give yourself a new generation of Nimbys. Residents won't put up with the nosie and cahos of a typical North American resort area. Not to mention that the 40 mintue ride on the D/Q/F/N is not going to appeal to the typical condo buyer. For that kind of distance, I'd want one of those charming Bensonhurst townhomes.
I like his revisions and think they should be given a shot. |
We started out with Nathans! I love it myself so I had to let her try this New York delight.
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4...ures006jy0.jpg A shot from the Boardwalk: http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5...ures007ma3.jpg The beach: http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6...ures011xc6.jpg http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4...ures009pe5.jpg |
The following quote from Sitt is truly stunning in it's racist stereotyping. To break it down by race and enthicity is truly astounding and so patently offensive to those groups as to be incredulous. Note that no where in this statement are amusements noted. This scumbag has no commitment to the integrity of the C-7 zone.
Quote:
Finally, time-shares are residences. The best measure of a hotel is whether the city's occupancy and other lodging taxes can be applied. Time shares would not generate those taxes for the city. The footprint of this plan is the same as the previous with non-amusement buildings filling most of the square footage. Sitt listened to no one. His descriptive narrative has slightly changed, but it is the same plan. |
What to do about "Sitts's Shits"
I read the Joseph Sitts quote ^^^ in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/nyregion/18coney.html Was it printed anywhere else? Sitts' quote is so bigoted that it reminds me of Interior Secretary James Watt's description of his cabinet in 1983: "I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple. And we have talent." Sitts' stereotyping needs to be widely disseminated throughout the community. Any idea how could this be done? |
The links for to the NY Times disappear so quickly that I posted the full article (cited above^^):
The New York Times June 18, 2007 Coney Island Plan Is Scaled Back, but Critics Are Skeptical http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...8coney-600.jpg An artist’s rendering of an aerial view of Surf Avenue at Coney Island under a new plan for a renovated amusement complex there. By CHARLES V. BAGLI The developer who wants to remake Coney Island’s amusement district has a new plan and says that you’re going to love it. Joseph J. Sitt, who says his company has spent $120 million buying up land underneath and around the rides, said on Friday that he had “rolled over” in response to the criticism of his earlier plans for an entertainment and residential complex. So the looming 40-story tower planned for the Boardwalk at Stillwell Avenue is gone. So are the hundreds of rental apartments and luxury condominiums in the old plan. The new proposal is less dense, he said, but has more of “the new, the edgy, and the outlandish” rides and attractions that America’s first resort was once known for. “This is our way of showing the New York community that we’re responsive to what they want,” said Mr. Sitt, the founder and chief executive of Thor Equities, which buys and develops commercial, residential and retail properties nationwide. “Our design, in all its greatness, is a way of showing the world what Coney Island can be.” Who could complain? Well. Robert Lieber, president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation, described Mr. Sitt’s new plan as a “wolf dressed up as a sheep.” Mr. Lieber, along with neighborhood leaders and other city officials, had expressed fears that residents of new apartment buildings would not fit comfortably with the noisy, all-hours amusement district that would be preserved between West Eighth Street and the Aquarium and the minor league baseball stadium at West 16th Street. The new plan keeps the concept of a new glass-enclosed water park, but instead of apartments calls for three hotels, including more than 400 time-share units, along with restaurants, shops, movie theaters and high-tech arcades. The latest renderings depict a pulsating entertainment complex with an Elephant Colossus statue and architecture that evokes the old Luna Park and Dreamland amusement parks. Mr. Lieber and others say that the time-share units look an awful lot like apartments and that the complex looks more like a mall than Coney Island. “He came in last week and presented a plan that had essentially the same density, but dressed it up with hotels and time shares,” Mr. Lieber said on Friday. “The building heights still exceed the 271-foot Parachute Jump,” a Coney Island landmark. “And he’s looking for a huge subsidy from the city. North of $100 million.” The city has been working with local residents and property owners for nearly three years on a master plan for what everyone agrees is a dowdy area. The idea, they say, is to preserve the democratic, open-air quality of Coney Island’s culture and amusement district on the south side of Surf Avenue, while allowing for high-rise residential and retail development set apart from the rides, on the north side of Surf. The Economic Development Corporation, along with the City Planning Department and the Coney Island Development Corporation, have been devising a rezoning proposal for Coney Island that will go through a public review process later this year. “The community and the Coney Island Development Corporation have all indicated that residential and amusements don’t go together,” said Chuck Reichenthal, district manager of Community Board 13. But Mr. Sitt says he believes the changes being proposed are too restrictive and would undercut his ability to redevelop the area. Everyone agrees that the shrunken hulk of the amusement district is worth preserving, at the edge of a beach that still draws tens of thousands of people on the summer weekends. The question is how to turn it into a year-round attraction. “Coney Island has changed its faces many times,” Mr. Reichenthal said. “The last Luna Park was in the mid-1940s. Steeplechase came down in the ’60s. But that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t remained a magnet. There’s a lot to do when people come down here. It’s still the place for people who don’t have a huge amount of money in their pocket to come and have a good time.” Mr. Sitt, who is equal parts real estate entrepreneur and supersalesman, has been engaged in a game of chicken with the city over the future of Coney Island. Earlier this year, his team claimed that his project “isn’t a financially feasible investment” without high-rise housing. Over the winter, he knocked down the batting cages and the go-kart park in a move that harked back to the bad old days of empty lots. Now he has taken the housing, at least all the units labeled apartments, out of his proposal, and he is betting that his new $1.5 billion plan will win the overwhelming support of local residents, if not all the officials at City Hall. The hotels, which range from 25 to 32 stories, have been moved to midblock, away from the Boardwalk. Mr. Sitt has already spent a large sum buying up 10 acres behind the Nathan’s Famous hot dog stand from 30 different families, including the descendants of George C. Tilyou, founder of Steeplechase Park, and the owners of Astroland, an amusement park that embraces the 270-foot Astro Tower. Astroland is scheduled to close in September. The Cyclone roller coaster, which is a city landmark, will remain open. Hear his pitch: The hotels, Mr. Sitt said, would offer black residents not only jobs, but careers. The Russian immigrants, who enjoy a “quality of life and activity by the water,” would flock to the hotels and nightclubs. Jewish and Italian-American residents would get the “quality retail, bookstores and entertainment venues” that they want. As for everyone else, “what’s better than having fabulous restaurants, catering halls, shows and concerts?” “Tell me, what issue any one of these constituencies would have with our plan,” he said. “We’re asking for motherhood, motherhood. Apple pie, Chevrolet and Coney Island.” Pause for breath. “Maybe I sound like a salesman,” Mr. Sitt said, “but I’m passionate about this.” Jeff Persily, who has worked in the amusement district since 1960 and owns a penny arcade and other property on Bowery Street, agrees with the notion that the amusement area must be turned into a year-round attraction to survive. The city needs to change the zoning to allow for larger buildings, hotels, apartments, parking and retail, he said. “They have a vision of open-air amusements,” Mr. Persily said. “We can’t afford to spend millions on new rides and only be open three months of the year.” Would he sell out to Mr. Sitt? “At the end of the day, combining all the properties and building amusements, hotels and residential would be a wonderful thing for New York,” he said. “We’re talking about creating not hundreds of jobs but many thousands of jobs. I love Coney Island. I’d love to see it become what it once was when I was a kid.” But not everyone trusts Mr. Sitt to deliver. They are concerned that he would convert his time-share units to apartments or flip the property to another developer who would change the plans. Charles Denson, who grew up in Coney Island and now heads the Coney Island History Project, is fond of saying that Mr. Sitt could be a hero by saving the amusement district. But he said residential towers would overwhelm the amusements and “a big shopping mall is not Coney Island.” The history project is running a show in the museum underneath the Cyclone roller coaster titled “Land Grab.” It depicts the development of Coney Island since the 1800s through aerial photographs. “It’s the last ungentrified place in New York,” Mr. Denson said. “It’s still a poor man’s paradise. There’s something magical about it, the name, the reputation and the history.” Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/nyregion/18coney.html ** Sitts's Shits in sick-doody brown. |
I don't see a problem with this plan, the city needs to stop trying to roll back the clock and support this guy so that Coney Island is something other than a lowest common denominator playground.
eh, whatever...they don't have a problem giving Goldman Sachs and other investment banks billions in tax breaks to occupy prime space downtown and they balk at giving much less to a developer of a blighted area that has been a dump for decades and that is building a hugely risky development. |
Can those towers in the rendering look any more blocky and boxy?
They look like the red brick housing projects a few blocks away, except they're shiny. |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:58 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.