Wiring the Subway for Cell Phones

[Deimos]

Are there any plans to wire the subway, or sell the rights to do so to the wireless providers? I would think that the MTA could fetch a pretty penny from Verizon to make them exclusive, although the other providers might argue that their FCC licenses would entitle them to equal access. Either way, I would expect that the MTA would be able to raise at least $250 million to allow this to happen, and possibly more.

[Clarknt67]

Are there any plans to wire the subway, or sell the rights to do so to the wireless providers? I would think that the MTA could fetch a pretty penny from Verizon to make them exclusive, although the other providers might argue that their FCC licenses would entitle them to equal access. Either way, I would expect that the MTA would be able to raise at least $250 million to allow this to happen, and possibly more.

God I hope this doesn't happen. I have heard slight mentions, rumblings. But if anything can make a crapped, smelly, dirty environment more unpleasant it's 100 obnoxious New Yorker yelling into their phones.

[NewYorkYankee]

Well, Id take 100 NY'ers yelling into their phones for better, cleaner service.

[TLOZ Link5]

Ehhh, $250 million is a drop in the bucket — or possibly a drop in the ocean — considering the budget that the MTA has at the moment (read problems the MTA has gotten itself into).

[ZippyTheChimp]

Rats!

One of the last bastions of isolation from the infernal need to be connected will soon be no more.

[Deimos]

I threw $250 Million as an idea, I was personally thinking more along the lines of $1 Billion, but thought that would be too much. Also Clarknt67, I agree that it will suck when the last quiet area becomes noisy, but it's only a matter of time before it happens anyway, so why not allow the MTA to profit off of it when the really need the money rather than seeing another fare increase or a forcing of new debt?

[NewYorkYankee]

Ehhh, $250 million is a drop in the bucket — or possibly a drop in the ocean — considering the budget that the MTA has at the moment (read problems the MTA has gotten itself into).

Well it is $250 million they dont have now. Its something.

[Clarknt67]

Well it is $250 million they dont have now. Its something.

I'd rather see the subways remain silent and pressure the Feds to redirect more of those billion$ they're spending on infrastructure in Iraq to support the infrastructure in THIS country.

[NewYorkYankee]

Agreed, but I dont see that happening anytime soon.

[Clarknt67]

Agreed, but I dont see that happening anytime soon.

You're probably right, but this is another case where we, citizens, are offered option 1, which is bad, or option 2 which is also bad. We don't have to choose between letting corporate America walk all over us, or suffer in poverty.

Funds for urban concerns have been dwindling for a decade, and unfortunately, they will continue to do so. But let's recognize this is the net result. Our infrastructure is suffering and efforts to rescue it will only sweeten profits at a big corporation like Verizon.

[tmg]

I remember hearing that cell phone companies had expressed interest in wiring the subway tunnels, but that MTA decided it would be too difficult to coordinate this with its already-complex schedule for subway tunnel construction.

Here's another interesting wrinkle to this issue:
http://www.antipixel.com/blog/archives/2004/08/15/nagoya_subways_to_disable_cell_phone_service.html

[BrooklynRider]

Funds for urban concerns have been dwindling for a decade, and unfortunately, they will continue to do so. But let's recognize this is the net result. Our infrastructure is suffering and efforts to rescue it will only sweeten profits at a big corporation like Verizon.

Well, let us not forget the 3% telephone tax we all pay on our bills. It was created 79 years ago as a temporary tax and remains today. Funds from that tax could finance this project in a second.

The government has an interest in expanding cell phone service ranges. Newer cell phones are equipped (or being equipped) with RFID and GPS chips. The more expanded the cell phone network, the easier to track individuals and their movements. We're in the age of big brother and privacy invasion - they won't pass up this opportunity.

[ZippyTheChimp]

January 13, 2006

Doubts Cloud Plan for Cellphone Service in Subway Stations

By SEWELL CHAN

When proposed nearly five months ago, the idea held the promise of a new era of underground communications. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, long hesitant about enabling cellphone service in the subways, said it would oversee the creation of a wireless network for all 277 underground stations.

Despite fears that cellphones could be used to detonate explosives, the authority, in a change of heart, maintained that the devices would allow passengers and employees to quickly report suspicious activities and summon help in emergencies. Not to mention the convenience.

Today, however, the plan, which would not provide cellphone service on moving trains, is yet another example of how nothing involving the New York City subways is ever simple. It has become mired in disagreements about the project's cost, feasibility and worthiness. The deadline for bids, originally Oct. 12, was pushed back to Nov. 30, then to Dec. 28 and now to Wednesday.

In procurement documents that were distributed only to potential bidders, the authority answered 82 questions about the project, many of them expressing skepticism. One prospective bidder wrote that wiring underground stations with little traffic "may not make economic sense" and claimed, "There is serious question if significant revenue to the M.T.A. could be justified." Another called the plan "unjustifiable economically."

Even so, some of the country's largest wireless carriers are considering forming an unusual alliance to compete for the work, although they have asserted that it will be hard to recoup their investment unless tunnels, not only stations, are included in the contract.

The alliance, or "teaming agreement," would be led by Cingular Wireless, the nation's largest carrier, and include Verizon Wireless and T-Mobile. Sprint Nextel is also considering joining, said a spokesman, Mark Elliott.

An official at one carrier noted that most customers buy large packages of minutes that are paid for in advance, so carriers would make additional money only if customers went over their allotments. Talking in subway stations may promote more cellphone use, but not necessarily enough to push customers over their limits. Because subway platforms and trains are noisy, talking may not seem attractive.

The authority has vowed to spend no money on the project. It wants the winning bidder not only to design, build, operate and maintain a network, known as a distributed-antenna system, but also to pay monthly access fees, essentially rent, for the privilege of having coverage in the stations. The winner will get an exclusive 10-year license, but must allow other carriers to rent access.

Until recently, the major precedent for such an effort was the Washington subway system, which began installing a wireless network in 1993 as part of a plan to upgrade police, fire and emergency communications underground. Its agreement with Verizon Wireless lasts through 2017 and generates "very modest revenues annually," according to a spokeswoman for the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority.

In February, InSite Wireless was granted a 15-year license to create a wireless network in the Boston subway, with guaranteed fees totaling nearly $4 million for the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. In December, U.S. Cellular entered a $3 million, 10-year lease agreement with the Chicago Transit Authority to provide a wireless network in the subway system there.

This month, Bay Area Rapid Transit District, in San Francisco, completed the first phase of an underground wireless network; its contract, with an alliance of the four major carriers, expires in 2014 and guarantees the agency annual income of $326,400, rising as the remaining two phases are completed. In all four of these arrangements, tunnel coverage is included, although each system is much smaller than New York's.

Although the Metropolitan Transportation Authority announced the cellphone plan on the same day it unveiled a $212 million deal to saturate the subways with television cameras and other security devices, the plan is the brainchild of the authority's real estate department, which leases advertising and commercial space in the subways, and was not primarily born of security concerns, officials said.

A critical point of contention is the scope of the project. For now, the authority insists that wiring nearly 700 miles of tunnels would be impossible because it would require access to the tracks and interrupt train service for unacceptable stretches of time. Even so, officials sounded out a prominent advocate for riders, Gene Russianoff, last month on the notion of wiring the tunnels.

Mr. Russianoff, a lawyer at the Straphangers Campaign, part of the New York Public Interest Research Group, said he was "helplessly ambivalent" about the idea.

On the one hand, he said, riders are wary of being trapped next to inconsiderate cellphone users inside subway cars. On the other hand, coverage in tunnels would allow riders to call their families and even to report problems like graffiti, broken doors or train delays.

Representatives of the four largest carriers all declined to comment on their proposal, but owners of smaller companies said the authority would get the best deal by hiring a "neutral host" rather than an alliance of wireless operators.

"It's a nightmare," said Kevin F. Donohue, an owner of Integrated Wireless Alliance in Blauvelt, N.Y., which owns cellphone towers and decided not to submit a bid. "There is nothing in the contract to force carriers to move forward in a timely way. The M.T.A. should have looked at an independent third party to win this contract, not a carrier."

Christopher J. Davis, president of InSite Wireless, said the company, based in Alexandria, Va., would not submit a proposal for the New York project because the risks were too great.

"They're better-positioned to take on the capital and logistical risks of the project, even though they've largely divested themselves of owning wireless infrastructure," he said of the major carriers. "But are they the best people to operate and manage infrastructure, when their natural tendency is to compete with one another?"

Jeffrey Just, president of Dianet Communications, said his company was preparing a bid for the work but also said that the four biggest carriers appeared to be strongly favored. "The carriers are interested in paying as little rent as possible," he said. "But this is a project that's very feasible. The business model is there, and it will provide security and service improvements to the M.T.A.'s customers."

Dianet, based in New York and Cranbury, N.J., is one of six companies that received a contract with the city's Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications in 2004 to place cellphone antennas and Internet transmitters atop lampposts, traffic signals and highway signs.

Ken Belson contributed reporting for this article.

* Copyright 2006The New York Times Company

[bxgrl74]

This is the last thing we need...a bunch of self absorbed jackasses yacking away about ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Ride an el train & you will see what I mean. I have never hear such moronic assinine conversations in my life. And yes, I listen in on them. Public area, right? I've heard people's vacation plans (not too friggen bright if you ask me), people's arguments on whether the baby carriage should be opened or closed and then just the mother of all ahole conversations...."what are you doing" pause..."I'm on the train"....pause...."what are you eating"....pause...."you shouldn't eat that...it's bad for you"....pause...."do you want fries w/your shrimpS".....pause...."ok bye"....(that was on the 4 train in the Bronx...where else do you hear the word "shrimpS")

Yeah real intelligent conversation that could not have waited until they were OFF the train.:eek:

[Dagrecco82]

I don't want to play devil's advocate but didn't they use cellphones to detonate the bombs on both the Madrid and London trains? Or am I just completely off?

[TLOZ Link5]

I don't want to play devil's advocate but didn't they use cellphones to detonate the bombs on both the Madrid and London trains? Or am I just completely off?

The bombing in Madrid took place at Atocha station, which is primarily a commuter railroad and intercity depot, not a metro stop. Atocha is above-ground and there would have been cell-phone service anyway. Also, the Atocha bombings were set off by activating the alarm function on the cell phones, which doesn't require service reception. The London bombings are currently believed to have been manual detonations, considering the fact that mobile reception on the Underground is very, very spotty.

Wikipedia will save us all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

[MidtownGuy]

Sometimes, when I need an excuse for not answering my phone, the old standby is " I must have been on the train."

maybe it's just me but I resent the expectation that we are all to be instantly accessible-everytime, everywhere- to everybody.
The subway ride, for some, can be a short break- to read or contemplate. and very often the train is quiet, despite being crowded. so having a bunch of phone yakkers would truly suck.

[lofter1]

^ Agreed ...

IMO cell phone use has practically become pathological behavior. As if some people feel a sense of "dis-connect" if they are not wired in and talking.

What is that about anyway?

[kz1000ps]

hey, I don't know about you guys, but when I step out of the apartment, I NEED my cell phone, iPod, digital camera, Blackberry, laptop, PSP, iPod charger, cell phone charger, laptop charger...........

[TLOZ Link5]

I could probably do without cell phone service. I happen to like stepping aboveground and noticing that I have voicemail, which indicates that someone called me while I was on the train.

As the old adage goes, a watched phone never rings. If the stations were wired for service, I'd probably be worrying too much about why someone hasn't returned my call to enjoy the ride, as it were.