Pennsylvania office tower [Archive]

emmeka

July 1st, 2003, 07:14 AM

A 60 storey office building near madison square gardens is said to of been put on hold because of the current problems in the stock market.

Pennsylvania office tower or 401 7th avenue will occupy the site which is presently the pennsylvania hotel, the hotel is not yet near closing as it will only do so nearing demolition.

The projects develloper, Vorado Realty corporation, has given the project to architects KOHN, Pedrerson Fox Associates, The building is said to be over 500 ft.

emmeka

July 1st, 2003, 09:31 AM

http://a.1asphost.com/guide/penntower.jpg

Heres a rendering

Zoe

July 1st, 2003, 10:02 AM

Looks like it belongs in Times Square not Penn Plaza.

emmeka

July 1st, 2003, 10:11 AM

Yeah, it does. But you never know, Penn plaza might be the next area for devellopment!

Agglomeration

July 1st, 2003, 11:50 AM

I'd love to see that tower go up in the same spot as the squat and boxy 2 Penn Plaza, which deserves to be demolished. Who wouldn't think so?

(Edited by Agglomeration at 10:52 am on July 1, 2003)

Fabb

July 1st, 2003, 05:16 PM

Quote: from emmeka on 6:14 am on July 1, 2003
The building is said to be over 500 ft.

Of course !
I think it's over 800 ft.
We discussed it already. Someone said it was a taller version of Ernst&Young.

Eugenius

July 1st, 2003, 05:53 PM

(Edited by Eugenius at 9:59 am on July 3, 2003)

DominicanoNYC

July 1st, 2003, 09:28 PM

Quote: from Agglomeration on 10:50 am on July 1, 2003
I'd love to see that tower go up in the same spot as the squat and boxy 2 Penn Plaza, which deserves to be demolished. Who wouldn't think so?

(Edited by Agglomeration at 10:52 am on July 1, 2003)

I know I would think so.:) It's an eye-sore.

TLOZ Link5

July 1st, 2003, 11:21 PM

Quote: from Agglomeration on 10:50 am on July 1, 2003
I'd love to see that tower go up in the same spot as the squat and boxy 2 Penn Plaza, which deserves to be demolished. Who wouldn't think so?

I'm definitely with you. *Two Penn Plaza is the allegorical gravestone of the old Penn Station.

dbhstockton

July 2nd, 2003, 11:53 AM

You can't get rid of Two Penn Plaza. *The toilet bowl needs a tank (for flushing the commuters back to Long Island?).

Did anybody else ever notice the complex's resemblance to our great "American Standard."

http://www.ticketsconcertssports.com/madison-square-garden-aerial.jpg

JerzDevl2000

July 2nd, 2003, 12:15 PM

Great - a beaux arts masterpiece torn down for a toilet bowl...maybe that's why the Garden teams are a pile of s*** right now!

dbhstockton's picture shows everything being lovely shades of brown and ugly in the Penn Plaza area. I think it's for some new development and color!

Zoe

July 2nd, 2003, 12:16 PM

I'm not saying I don't like the design, or that 2 Penn Plaza does not suck - it does. *However it looks like they had the style of times square in mind when they designed this building instead of finding a design that blends better with the Penn Plaza area or come up with a new design unique to the Penn area that future buildings can work off of. *Originality is a fading concept these days.

dbhstockton

July 2nd, 2003, 04:18 PM

You're right about the Times Square comment. *If that rendering isn't by the architect of 5 Times Square, somebody should be suing.

emmeka

July 3rd, 2003, 05:08 PM

yeah, i agree, i think that penn plaza should set itself its own style. Boy would that be a good area for devellpoment!

I was thinking the same thing about it looking like ernst & young as well, is it me or are lots of designs really similar to others, Oh god dont tell me that architects are getting stuck for ideas!

TLOZ Link5

July 3rd, 2003, 06:44 PM

Pennsylvania Hotel, courtesy of Skyscrapers.com:

http://skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2001/02/102330.jpg

http://skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2002/09/161385.jpg

Is it just me, or am I the only one here who thinks that this isn't the best of tradeoffs?

Jack Ryan

July 21st, 2003, 10:15 PM

The Phone number at the hotel is still Pennsylvania Six Five Thousand. *

TLOZ Link5

July 22nd, 2003, 07:27 PM

Love that song. *Glenn Miller was amazing.

matt3303

July 22nd, 2003, 10:25 PM

"Is it just me, or am I the only one here who thinks that this isn't the best of tradeoffs? "
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. It's not the building I don't like, it's where they are putting it. Why don't they tear down some of the crumbling tenements around the Garden for this, instead of a grand 1920s era hotel that takes up the whole side of the block? It would probably be cheaper to buy the tenements, too.

BrooklynRider

July 23rd, 2003, 02:20 PM

The hotel is a dump and changes ownership often.

TLOZ Link5

July 23rd, 2003, 10:45 PM

Normally I'm inclined to agree with you, Rider, but that's the same argument that the Pennsylvania Railroad used to justify the demolition of the old Penn Station. *Taking that hotel down will erase any last reminder of McKim Mead & White's influence in the development of that area.

...Oh God, I'm turning into a preservationist! *Someone detain me before I start stealing babies and eating them!

Fabb

July 24th, 2003, 02:33 AM

Penn Station... and now Pennsylvania Hotel ?
I agree, this is going too far.
I'm so upset that I have to eat another baby. Right now.

BrooklynRider

July 25th, 2003, 11:15 AM

The hotel was built in context with the train station. *The train station is gone and the hotel has no context. *7th Ave from 34th Street to 23rd Street is in need of a facelift. Unless the hotel is repositioned as a "grand old dame of the old era", I'd heave the wrecking ball myself to ensurethe momentum of demolition.

dbhstockton

July 30th, 2003, 06:06 PM

Demolition would be a huge job. *So would renovation. *The building is gigantic. *I'm sure they've done the math. *

Fabb

July 30th, 2003, 06:23 PM

There might be the asbestos problem, although it wasn't used when the hotel was built...

Hof

August 1st, 2003, 01:23 PM

The Hotel Pennsylvania is where I stay when I come home for a visit.It's cheap,convenient and has a history that bleeds from the walls.
It's a grand structure that gives instant New York vibes to any guest,and it attracts an amazing variety of international visitors.
During my stays there,I've been on elevators crammed with Swedish backpackers,Israeli businessmen,cute French girls and UN delegates from everywhere,all simultaneously heading out for adventure in the wilds of Manhattan.
The marble lobby is large enough for Professional Football,and the variety of shops and restaurants in,and immediately adjacent to,the hotel,make it a convenient destination for a visitor.
Going through the thick glass entryway and out onto 7th Avenue moves one from the quiet,stately confines of the building's grand staircased lobby and into the thick of a busy,always on the move city,--Wham--just like that--an exciting transition available 24/7.
Whenever they decide to tear it down--a big mistake,in my estimation--I'm going to fly to the City,just to stay one last time in a very New York hotel,and it will be a cheap stay.

Agglomeration

August 2nd, 2003, 03:00 PM

If that new tower is built, i want to see it built as a new affordable hotel rather than an office building.

Fabb

August 2nd, 2003, 03:11 PM

A new affordable hotel at that location ?
I don't think this is going to happen.

TLOZ Link5

August 2nd, 2003, 07:10 PM

They could make a Hearst-like addition above the hotel and preserve the section within the original building for hotel use.

Fabb

August 3rd, 2003, 05:46 AM

But the Hearst building was intended to be much taller. Hence, the foundations can support many more floors.
What would happen to the hotel if it had to carry an extra load ?

TLOZ Link5

August 3rd, 2003, 03:43 PM

Point taken.

Fabb

August 3rd, 2003, 05:11 PM

I'm so disappointed in you TLOZ. I thought you would fight for your ideas.

I'll do it then.
What could be done is keep the façade and destroy all the rest of the hotel. Then, dig new foundations and build something that keeps the old appearance from the street level but adds a contemporary structure that soars above.
Much like the Hearst Building but on a more important scale.
You know what, this is done constantly in Paris (except that nothing soars above the old structure of course).

(Edited by Fabb at 4:12 pm on Aug. 3, 2003)

emmeka

August 18th, 2003, 06:37 AM

Yes, great idea! Lots of places do that now, youre right though because in most countrys like england or france things like that seem to stay the same height.

dbhstockton

August 18th, 2003, 01:16 PM

This building is huge, though. *You don't dig new foundations, either. *It's sitting on top of the railroad.

The thing was built to last.

Fabb

August 18th, 2003, 03:01 PM

Another one built on top of the railroad ?
I didn't know that.
Is that why Godzilla chose that area for nesting ? I mean, as a burrower, he probably liked underground galleries...

TLOZ Link5

August 18th, 2003, 11:44 PM

I thought he nested in Madison Square Garden.

Fabb

August 19th, 2003, 05:20 AM

Right.
Isn't it just a couple of blocks away ?

emmeka

August 19th, 2003, 10:24 AM

Yeah thats right, didnt he also make a huge hole in the met life building?

Every good kind of film or disaster is based in new york, so ist obviously the best place in the world ( this of course has always been my opinon).

zepplin100

August 20th, 2003, 05:08 PM

i love the proposed new tower, hope they put it up soon. That area is in real need of some glass. I can't say much for the current hotel except for the awesome lobby ... oh yeah, paying $79 per night in midtown is great too I guess.

Zoe

August 20th, 2003, 05:44 PM

Madison Square Garden is directly across the street from the hotel. *I imagine that some railroad tracks would be underneath the hotel, but I would think they would be for train detouring and left-overs from the old station being that the hotel is east of Penn Station and all the lines run west.

JMGarcia

August 20th, 2003, 05:52 PM

The Long Island Railroad runs east from Penn Station.

Zoe

August 20th, 2003, 05:59 PM

Thanks for clearing the cobwebs in my head for me ;)

kliq6

August 2nd, 2004, 07:26 PM

any news on this or is it dead

chris_rgbg

August 4th, 2004, 07:33 AM

Hi,

I´m new in this Community, but i read this Forum for many months. Now I decided to register:)

I hope the Penn Plaza will not be destroyed. I went there last december at my first Vacation and i had an outstanding view to ESB.

In December 2004 I will be there again and I hope, that I have a chance to go to Penn Plaza again.

Greetings from Germany

chris

kliq6

January 10th, 2005, 12:30 PM

anything new on this project, is really exciting to take down that dump of a hotel, which ive stayed in and building, something, anything new

Scraperfannyc

April 3rd, 2007, 03:35 AM

Why would they destroy the beautiful oppulant hotel Pennsylvania? That seems retarded.

Simple answer is because they can. It is an ideal location for an office building, being just outside Penn Station. Also, nobody lives there, so it is easier to buy out a hotel and destroy it so long as it is not landmarked.

kliq6

April 3rd, 2007, 12:49 PM

Why would they destroy the beautiful oppulant hotel Pennsylvania? That seems retarded.

Im sorry that buildings days have been numbered, Im sorry but that structure is a dump these days from neglect

Fabrizio

April 3rd, 2007, 01:01 PM

It IS a dump but a dump that should be made into a landmark and restored.

Built in 1919, architects McKim, Mead & White (isn't that reason enough?), it was designed as a piece together with Penn Station and the Post Office.

They tear down Penn Station. Years later try to make the post office into ANOTHER Penn Station and now they tear down the Pennsylvania Hotel.

It's absurd. Philistines indeed.

-----

Homage to the hotels telephone number:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXGQNm4EKoc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_6-5000

londonlawyer

April 3rd, 2007, 01:05 PM

It IS a dump but a dump that should be made into a landmark and restored.

Built in 1919, architects McKim, Mead & White (isn't that reason enough?), it was designed as a piece together with Penn Station and the Post Office....

I agree. It is a beautiful building that is in disrepair and is a lousy, one star hotel. However, it should be restored to its original magnificent state. This is yet another example of developers' greed ruining NYC.

Fabrizio

April 3rd, 2007, 01:24 PM

Its just soooo funny that so many here get NOSTALGIC for Penn Station...a building most here are too young to have even seen. We get photo after photo about it, but the Penn Station architects' other building, right across the street.... designed to COMPLIMENT Penn Station (note the columns) is given no consideration at all.

In it's present state, I wouldn't stay at the Pennsylvania Hotel if they paid me but it could be made into a magnificent luxury Hotel or condos.

JMGarcia

April 3rd, 2007, 02:19 PM

I just don't get what people see in the hotel's architecture. Its got some nice columns out front but the rest of the building is quite mundane. Its architecture is nothing more than the "mundane glass box" of its age.

Its neighbors on 7th Ave. to the south easily outshine it.

londonlawyer

April 3rd, 2007, 02:36 PM

...

Its neighbors on 7th Ave. to the south easily outshine it.

The buildings to the south are nicer, but, to me, that's not a reason to raze this one which is also beautiful. Also, I guarantee that an 800 to 850 mediocre building will rise in the hotel's place. Look at the lame POS that Macklowe is building on 53rd and Madison. He razed a lot of nice structures on that site.

NoyokA

April 3rd, 2007, 02:43 PM

The buildings to the south are nicer, but, to me, that's not a reason to raze this one which is also beautiful. Also, I guarantee that an 800 to 850 mediocre building will rise in the hotel's place. Look at the lame POS that Macklowe is building on 53rd and Madison. He razed a lot of nice structures on that site.

That's Macklowe. The Pennsylvania Hotel would be redevelopment by Steven Roth of Vornado. Different people. Macklowe usually hires SLCE and Moed De Armas, two subpar architects. Vornado for his new projects has hired KPF, Cesar Pelli, David Childs, Norman Foster, Rockwell Group, all above average corporate architects. He also changes architects and designs, showing that he has a strong interest in the buildings design.

londonlawyer

April 3rd, 2007, 02:45 PM

That's Macklowe. The Pennsylvania Hotel would be redevelopment by Steven Roth of Vornado. Different people.

I hope so. I'd prefer to keep the Hotel Penn, but a great tower could rise here. Vornado did a nice job with the Bloomberg Tower.

JMGarcia

April 3rd, 2007, 02:53 PM

The buildings to the south are nicer, but, to me, that's not a reason to raze this one which is also beautiful. Also, I guarantee that an 800 to 850 mediocre building will rise in the hotel's place. Look at the lame POS that Macklowe is building on 53rd and Madison. He razed a lot of nice structures on that site.

So we'd be replacing one mediocre building with another. That's quite typical in NY.

Just because the building is old doesn't mean it is particularly beautiful or architecturally significant.

Its nothing but a bland box that happens to be done in stone rather than glass with a few flourishes pasted on the front.

Fabrizio

April 3rd, 2007, 02:55 PM

JMGarcia

April 3rd, 2007, 05:22 PM

"Cesar Pelli, David Childs, Norman Foster...."

If it's of that calibre fine, and that should now be the concern....that a great New York icon gets a worthy replacement. We'll see...

JMGARCIA: "I just don't get what people see in the hotel's architecture."

I see 1919. McKim, Mead & White. Limestone. Artisan brick work, sculpture, decoration.

Now tell me about most of the stuff getting built today.

http://img.yezzz.com/zm2842197.jpeg

---

Let's see....

Limestone - nice material but poorly used in this case.
Artisan brick work - there's nothing unique or special about the brickwork here
sculpture - I must've missed that, where on the building is it?
decoration - some pasted on columns around the entry way.

Furthermore the cornice has been ruined already.

http://www.runwaytoretail.com/images/HotelNewYork.jpg

There's hundreds of better buildings in Manhattan from this time period. This one just happens to be somewhat famous but architecturally speaking it looks like it was done by the interns. Its really nothing special for its time period.

Don't get me wrong, its a perfectly nice building but considering it pales in comparison to even the buildings on the next block I don't understand why people get all sentimental about it.

The Drake is far superior IMO.