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Pierre Alexander
November 16th, 2008, 10:46 AM
I'd like to draw a comparison between this (George Orwell's 1984):

"You haven't a real appreciation of Newspeak, Winston. Even when you write it you're still thinking in Oldspeak. I've read some of those pieces that you write in The Times occasionally. They're good enough, but they're translations. In your heart you'd prefer to stick to Oldspeak, with all its vagueness and its useless shades of meaning. You don't grasp the beauty of the destruction of words. Do you know that Newspeak is the only language in the world whose vocabulary gets smaller every year?"

"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it."

"Even now, of course, there's no reason or excuse for committing thoughtcrime. It's merely a question of self-discipline, reality-control. But in the end there won't be any need even for that. The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect."

and this (The Telegraph):

"Publishers and universities are outlawing dozens of seemingly innocuous words in case they cause offence. Banned phrases on the list, which was originally drawn up by sociologists, include Old Masters, which has been used for centuries to refer to great painters - almost all of whom were in fact male. It is claimed that the term discriminates against women and should be replaced by "classic artists". The list of banned words was written by the British Sociological Association, whose members include dozens of professors, lecturers and researchers. The list of allegedly racist words includes immigrants, developing nations and black, while so-called "disablist" terms include patient, the elderly and special needs.
It comes after one council outlawed the allegedly sexist phrase "man on the street", and another banned staff from saying "brainstorm" in case it offended people with epilepsy (...)
The list of racist terms features black, which "can be used in a racist sense" and should be changed to "black peoples" or "black communities". Immigrants is said to have "racist overtones" because of its association with "immigration legislation", while developing nations - intended as a more sensitive replacement for Third World - is "prejudical" because it implies a comparison with developed countries.
Although not included on the Policy Press list, the BSA warns authors against using civilisation because of its “racist overtones that derive from a colonialist perception of the world”.

If you can see my point, can you please answer that question for me: will this madness ever come to and end?

stache
November 16th, 2008, 11:59 AM
Blank is the new black?

infoshare
November 16th, 2008, 12:05 PM
I'd like to draw a comparison between this (George Orwell's 1984):


Thanks for posting Pierre: I like the 1984 (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=259694&postcount=6) reference.

To address your question. I 'can' see your point; but 'can not' see any end to this madness.

ablarc
November 16th, 2008, 09:02 PM
It won't be easy, you'll think it strange
When I try to explain how I feel

Have I said too much?
There's nothing more I can think of to say to you.
But all you have to do is look at me to know
That every word is true

The answer was here all the time

infoshare
November 16th, 2008, 11:49 PM
^ Glad to see that a poet - and quite a good one, at that - has entered the fray: but for this one I think we need to put a 'philosopher' on the job - maybe Luca, can help us do a little BRAINSTORMING (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorming) here. :D

Excerpt from Wikipedia -
"Use of the term "brainstorming" has been criticized on the grounds that it is politically incorrect and offensive to people with epilepsy.[6] However, there appears to be little truth to this claim. A 2005 survey by the UK charity National Society for Epilepsy found that 93 per cent of people with the condition surveyed do not find the word offensive.[7]"

Luca
November 18th, 2008, 09:17 AM
So-called "political correctness" can obviously be taken to ridiculous, infuriating lengths. At worst, it becomes a tool with which to suppress freedom of expression and at best it robs language of many useful expressions. Having said that, however:

> Context matters. I would not necessarily disagree that, in a sociological reserch paper the term 'civilization' or 'the blacks' could be contentious and value-laden. In regular conversation, that may not be the case.

> If in doubt, side with the oppressed. Example: I personally find it odd that people consider 'actress' sexist (as opposed to 'actor'). On the other hand, I would politely differ with someone categorizing, say, Margaret Atwood as one of the best 'women writers' as rather condescending. It's easy to mock some of the more arcane PC 'rules', but let's not forget that people still alive today bristled at being 'forbidden' from usign the 'N' word.

I routinely see the term 'retarded' being used as a derogatory term on fairly mainstream websites.

> "The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect". I don't think PC-talk reduces the number of words and concepts. Indeed, it may expand them (academics love to "problematize" common meanings). As a matter of fact, I think the intent (however flawed in appllication) is to introduce finer and finer meanings, much as the armed forces do with their jargon [[digress warning]]. They used to call them 'car bombs', but a bomb is not the same thign as an artillery shell, say. And a truck is not a car. So we get Vehicle-Borne Improvised Explosive Device - VBIED. Ridiculous? maybe, but also more precise. An interesting point of sicussion, not a language killer, necessarily.

In literary and personal wirting, I think most would agree with the Orwellian view that jargon, unnecessary syllables, latinisms & foreign words shoudl be avoided and that grammar and word choice (I almost worte lexicon) in English should hew as closely as practical to clarity, simplicity and 'saxonness' as possible. Technical, scientific and academic writing, though, are another matter.

infoshare
November 18th, 2008, 10:32 AM
I routinely see the term 'retarded' being used as a derogatory term on fairly mainstream websites.



I find the use of the slang word 'retard' - in any context - to be offensive; but referring to someone (with the disability, that is) as 'retarded' seems to me quite acceptable. Currenty, the use of the word 'retarded' - in any context - is often considered to be politically incorrect:confused:.

My point being - as Pierre suggested - there really seems to be no end to this continual truncation of the language. He was 'spot on' with his reference to Newspeak.

No argument here - just an observation. Thank you for chiming in Luca.

p.s. To those many of you out there who think nothing of wearing slightly soiled garments (me being one of them) I am sorry about the use of the phrase 'spot-on (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spot+on)' : I do hope I did not offend anyone there. ;)............see what mean.

Ninjahedge
November 19th, 2008, 10:16 AM
The thing I don't get is when is an insult supposed to be politically correct?

I can understand in certain ways when someone is using a generalization of a race, creed or gender to cast aspersions and derogatory inferrence towards another, but when something is imbecillic, ill-thought or just plain stupid, what is wrong with calling it "retarded"?

When the term is used to somehow apply to something that does NOT have to do with intelligence or development, then it might be questioned, but a lot of times that transgression can also be committed just by calling it "stupid".

So what happens next? "Stupid" will be considered non-PC because of all the dumb people in the world taking offense as it being used as a derogatory statement?

That would be retarded. ;)

stache
November 19th, 2008, 11:07 AM
As far as I can figure it out, they want to omit terms that are medical or that refer to a medical/mental condition. It's just so easy to fall back on that kind of terminology, for lack of better descriptions.

lofter1
November 19th, 2008, 11:41 AM
The all-encompassing "challenged" will soon be the safest way to go.

stache
November 19th, 2008, 12:44 PM
Charm challenged? :confused:

lofter1
November 19th, 2008, 01:10 PM
bee-yatch