Good points about the Outer Boroughs

[Anarchy77]

This dude speaks about queens in particular, however there are valid criticisms that apply to the outer boroughs in general--the large numbers of non-english speaking people, the old produce in the supermarkets, too long lines at the post office.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/rnr/189750053.html

[ZippyTheChimp]

This dude's entire rant has less to do with Queens (or any particular place), and can be summed up by:

I’ve always been tolerant of people who are newly emigrated to the country and the time it takes to learn English – after all, my grandparents were immigrants
invariably followed by the BUT, and a list of examples of intolerance.

[ablarc]

I've only spent a week in Queens in my entire life, but this sounds like the Queens that I encountered.

Combining the worst features of suburb and city, I think it's fair to call most of it a hellhole. (Forest Hills is an exception, and there are doubtless others.)

[lofter1]

This one made me laugh -- and not limited to Queens:

10. Because of the women who use their shopping carts and baby carriages as weapons when walking down the street to cut you off.

[pianoman11686]

I've only spent a week in Queens in my entire life, but this sounds like the Queens that I encountered.

Combining the worst features of suburb and city, I think it's fair to call most of it a hellhole. (Forest Hills is an exception, and there are doubtless others.)

Most of it? If you do that, then what of Staten Island and the Bronx, which arguably have a higher presence of the worst suburban and urban features (respectively)? Same goes for eastern and northern Brooklyn.

I've always viewed Queens, especially the eastern part, as more of an extension of Nassau County. Even the way the area you reside in is referred to not as Queens, but as Flushing, or Elmhurst, or Jamaica. I grew up in Bayside, which is practically on the border with Nassau. I think it rather well combined a suburban atmosphere (lots of tree-lined streets, middle-income housing) with strong urban elements. There were real main streets (not strip malls); there was a sense of neighborhood, and people actually knew each other (not like out in nouveau Jersey, where I live now). There was ample bus service (no subways though), and you were never more than a 20-minute train or car ride to Manhattan. As much as I and my family wanted more open space (which was the root cause of our move to Jersey), I really miss the place sometimes. Holmdel, where I live now, is very much like the typical suburb. It is no place - just a lot of McMansions, shopping centers, and its own exit off the Garden State Parkway. Can't wait to move back to the city.

[Schadenfrau]

Looks like that idiotic post was removed by Craigslist, and for the Rants and Raves section, that's really something.

Seattle sucks far worse than any NYC borough ever could, and as for moaning about people not speaking English and long lines at the post office, that's just pathetic.

Is Andy Rooney the new punk icon?

[ZippyTheChimp]

I have several friends who live in Bayside, and have been familiar with the neighborhood for many years. Bell Blvd reminds me of 5th Ave in Brooklyn.

As for this thread, my point was that the ranter's main theme was not about Queens - he didn't state exactly where he lived - but about the people in his neighborhood.

And the comment by Anarchy77:

that apply to the outer boroughs in general--the large numbers of non-english speaking people, the old produce in the supermarkets, too long lines at the post office.
Those conditions described could apply to many places in Manhattan, and not at all in many neighborhoods in the Outer Boroughs.

On average, Manhattan has the worst supermarkets in the city.

[Anarchy77]

Seattle sucks far worse than any NYC borough ever could, and as for moaning about people not speaking English and long lines at the post office, that's just pathetic.
Seattle may not have the arts and culture that nyc does (but we do have it), however, I would take the worst neighborhoods in Seattle over the likes of east new york, east flatbush, bed sty, the south bronx, and jamaica anyday.

It isn't that pathetic to complain about slow inconsiderate civil service workers or people who won't make an effort to learn the language if they are residents, maybe even citizens of the united states, you simply appreciate standards.

[MrSpice]

Looks like that idiotic post was removed by Craigslist, and for the Rants and Raves section, that's really something.

Seattle sucks far worse than any NYC borough ever could, and as for moaning about people not speaking English and long lines at the post office, that's just pathetic.

Is Andy Rooney the new punk icon?

This is a very strange post. I lived in Brooklyn for over 8 years. I think that with the exception of some nice-looking areas that are wealthy (Park Slope, Carrol Gardens, Brooklyn Heights, etc.) and those that are middle-class (like Prospect Heights, Bay Ridge, etc.), most of Brooklyn is downright ugly with hedeous dirty apartment buildings with rusty fire scapes, dirty streets and rumbling subway lines. When I visited Seattle a few years back, my impression was that it was a very clean and nice city that is filled with educated and intelligent people. I love New York City for its culture, food, diversity, etc. But large percentage of the city's territory is ugly and dirty and does not even look like it's located in the richest country in the world.

Most Russians immigrants who came to Brooklyn and Queens from the former Soviet Union in the 80s and 90s experienced a culture shock - they could imagine that USA would look like that...

[Anarchy77]

This is a very strange post. I lived in Brooklyn for over 8 years. I think that with the exception of some nice-looking areas that are wealthy (Park Slope, Carrol Gardens, Brooklyn Heights, etc.) and those that are middle-class (like Prospect Heights, Bay Ridge, etc.), most of Brooklyn is downright ugly with hedeous dirty apartment buildings with rusty fire scapes, dirty streets and rumbling subway lines. When I visited Seattle a few years back, my impression was that it was a very clean and nice city that is filled with educated and intelligent people. I love New York City for its culture, food, diversity, etc. But large percentage of the city's territory is ugly and dirty and does not even look like it's located in the richest country in the world.
Having grown up in Brooklyn.....I'm very much in agreement. True points about seattle despite its lack of racial and ethnic diversity.

[bkmonkey]

ummm right..... I would agree that there are some terrible neighborhoods in Brooklyn... but i would disagree in saying that the majority of the borough is ugly.. You proceded to say that only certain neighborhoods were not excluded from the uglyness.. but you named a huge chunk of the borough... While you were at it.. you left off
Flatbush...might be predominatly lower class but a beautiful neighborhood
Midwood.. hands down one of the most beautifule neighborhoods in nyc
Ocean Pkyw area- this parkway has gone un recognized for a while.. but it is beautiful
Bed Stuy- Despite it's reputation... there are many parts of bed stuy that are beautiful and historic.
Dumbo- totally revitalized neigborhood
Downtown- not very rusty and ugly..
Williamsburg-beautiful in its own way
Mill Basin- More like a suburb
Many sections of Crown Hieghts- towards eastern pky..

There are many people who sleep in Brooklyn and live in Manhattan.. Im not saying that you are ignorant.. im simply emploring you to explore these neighborhoods before you dismiss a large swath of the city as rusty and ugly. If youve only seen these parts of the city from an elevated subway train.. well.. enough said.

[sfenn1117]

most of Brooklyn is downright ugly with hedeous dirty apartment buildings with rusty fire scapes, dirty streets and rumbling subway lines

Hardly. Please, know more about what you're talking about before you even mention it. Most of Brooklyn is NOT like that; you have it backwards. East NY and Brownsville may be ugly (hideous new infill, projects, and yes, those subway lines), but Brooklyn is much more vast than that.

Please, take a walk around Dyker Heights, Seagate, Manhattan beach, Victorian flatbush, Mill Basin, Bath Beach, etc, and tell me these locales are ugly.


I'll take the dirty Brooklyn over a suburb anyway. I'm in a suburb right now visiting my family in CT. I don't know how people stand these places. Last night we drove 15 minutes to the nearest ice cream place, which is freakin Coldstone. At my house, I walk around the corner, and it's FAR better, and has been serving my neighborhood for nearly a century. Don't even get me started on how this family of mine is out of shape, another thing I blame on suburbs.

[pianoman11686]

Blanket statements: the worst kind there is.

[Anarchy77]

Flatbush...might be predominatly lower class but a beautiful neighborhood
Midwood.. hands down one of the most beautifule neighborhoods in nyc
Ocean Pkyw area- this parkway has gone un recognized for a while.. but it is beautiful
Bed Stuy- Despite it's reputation... there are many parts of bed stuy that are beautiful and historic.
Dumbo- totally revitalized neigborhood
Downtown- not very rusty and ugly..
Williamsburg-beautiful in its own way
Mill Basin- More like a suburb
Many sections of Crown Hieghts- towards eastern pky..
Flatbush near brooklyn college isn't that bad, but east flatbush is very dirty. Midwood was ok the last time I visited-mid 80's. Ocean pky and Mill Basin, nice areas. Bed Sty has blocks that are nice with well kept brownstone homes, but the overall reality of the neighborhood is still one of filthy streets and rampant property crime. Dumbo and Downtown have improved from the gentrification of the past 10 years or so. Williamsburg is in that class of one of the few nice areas w/ affluent yuppie/hipster gentrification. Crown Heights--see comments on bed sty, but the hasidim are moving back in--"I see them, you see them?"

[pianoman11686]

Midwood was ok the last time I visited-mid 80's.

You're kidding, right? Do you know how much the city has changed in only the past 10 years, not to mention 20?


Crown Heights--see comments on bed sty, but the hasidim are moving back in--"I see them, you see them?"

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, and I'm not offended by it because I'm Catholic, but be prepared to hear about it from other people here.

[Anarchy77]

You're kidding, right? Do you know how much the city has changed in only the past 10 years, not to mention 20?



I don't know what that's supposed to mean, and I'm not offended by it because I'm Catholic, but be prepared to hear about it from other people here.
I come back to nyc regularly, but I haven't been to midwood since the 80's. I tend to hang in manhattan.

And as for the last remark, I intended no offense against the hasidim, just a little levity:p

[krulltime]

I come back to nyc regularly, but I haven't been to midwood since the 80's. I tend to hang in manhattan.

You should think of re-visiting Brooklyn more often. ;)



Brooklyn: A destination, not a side trip


By BETH J. HARPAZ
Associated Press Travel Editor
July 30, 2006

NEW YORK -- Ten years ago, tourists visiting Brooklyn saw it as nothing more than a side trip from Manhattan. Maybe they walked across the Brooklyn Bridge or took the subway out to Coney Island, but few had dinner here or stayed the night.

These days, however, Brooklyn is a destination unto itself.

Now visitors to Brooklyn "stay here and go into Manhattan for the day _ or they don't go to Manhattan at all," said Monique Greenwood, who runs the Akwaaba Mansion, a B&B in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood. "Most of my European guests have already done Manhattan. Now they want to see Brooklyn. They're going to the Brooklyn Museum, the Botanic Garden, the Brooklyn Academy of Music, the Brooklyn Heights Promenade. Or they're just hanging out in Brooklyn. They like the idea that it's more of a neighborhood here. They believe that Brooklyn is the hip borough."

The evidence that Brooklyn tourism has come of age is everywhere. The Queen Mary 2 is home-porting in the new cruise terminal in the borough's Red Hook neighborhood. A survey of visitors to the Brooklyn Museum found that 25 percent are from outside the region _ compared to 5 percent in 1995. The exalted Michelin guide to fine dining in New York lists 25 Brooklyn restaurants. And drop-ins at Brooklyn Tourism and Visitors Center have nearly doubled in the past year.

When the Brooklyn Marriott opened in 1998, it was the first new hotel to be built in the borough in 68 years. It's been so successful that an additional 280-room tower is being built. Other new hotels are also going up in Brooklyn _ including a Holiday Inn Express opening Aug. 7.

Because large numbers of 20-somethings have settled in trendy neighborhoods like Park Slope, Williamsburg, DUMBO, Red Hook and Carroll Gardens, many tourists initially come to visit family and friends. But what's remarkable is how much sightseeing they do without leaving Brooklyn.

Amy O'Leary, who lives in Carroll Gardens, recently hosted her parents from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Their itinerary included Coney Island, a brick-oven pizzeria (Grimaldi's, 19 Old Fulton St.), and the Brooklyn Heights Promenade, a waterfront walkway with stunning views of Lower Manhattan.

"What's so neat about Brooklyn is it's so diverse, so eclectic _ it's just enjoyable," said Amy's dad Larry. "I sat out on her front stoop this morning and just watched the people going by."

Sitting on the steps of a Brooklyn brownstone is, in fact, a time-honored local pastime. You haven't experienced the borough until you've hung out long enough to admire someone's dog or tossed a wayward ball back to a kid playing in the street.

And yet there's so much more to Brooklyn, from the Russian community in Brighton Beach to the massive West Indian-American Day parade every Labor Day in Crown Heights.

___

Here are some other suggestions for enjoying the borough _ from chocolate and bagels to arts and music.

CHOCOLATE: In Park Slope, the Chocolate Room has chocolate fondue, 86 Fifth Ave., 718-783-2900, or try Cocoa Bar's wine-and-chocolate pairings, 228 Seventh Ave., 718-499-4080. Renowned chocolatier Jacques Torres sells confections at 66 Water St. in DUMBO _ http://www.mrchocolate.com, 718-875-9772.

DINING: Brooklynites have long been entitled to three things: the right to feel bitter about the Dodgers' departure nearly 50 years ago, and perfect pizza and hand-rolled bagels on every other corner.

But these days, culinary entitlements don't end with a slice and a schmear. Smith Street in Boerum Hill is foodie heaven, from the BarTabac bistro _ 128 Smith St., 718-923-0918 _ to Saul, which earned a coveted star from the Michelin guide, 140 Smith St., 718-935-9844.

In Park Slope, $10 gets you fish-and-chips or shepherd's pie at the Chip Shop, 383 Fifth Ave., 718-832-7701, or tofu basil (you won't believe it's not beef) at Rice Thai Kitchen, 311 Seventh Ave., 718-832-9512. Big spenders can indulge at Applewood, 501 11th St., 718-768-2044. After dinner, join the crowds at The Gate for a drink, 321 Fifth Ave., 718-768-4329. For music, head to Southpaw (bands and DJs), 125 Fifth Ave., 718-230-0236, or Puppets (jazz), 294 Fifth Ave., 718-499-2627.

WILLIAMSBURG: The L train to Bedford Avenue lands you in the epicenter of hipster Williamsburg, with cafes, galleries and boutiques. At the Bagel Store (247 Bedford, 718-218-7244), have a classic bagel, cream cheese and lox, or a uniquely amazing French toast bagel with syrup. Nearby, Pema New York (225 Bedford, 718-388-8814) sells ecologically correct clothes, woven in Nepal from hemp, $25-55. And Real Form Girdle (218 Bedford) houses not an undergarment factory but a mini-mall with a bookstore, Internet cafe and the Hello Beautiful hair salon.

For nightlife, Galapagos has bands, DJs and other performers _ 70 N. Sixth St., 718-782-5188 _ while Monkey Town shows videos while serving dinner _ 58 N. Third St., 718-384-1369. Also in Williamsburg: Peter Luger Steak House, the granddaddy of Brooklyn fine dining, 178 Broadway, 718-387-7400.

RED HOOK: This gritty waterfront neighborhood has turned suddenly trendy. Luxury ships dock here at the new cruise terminal. There's always a buzz about shows from the Brooklyn Waterfront Arts Coalition _ 499 Van Brunt St., 718-596-2507, http://www.bwac.org/. And for what is arguably the city's best view of the Statue of Liberty, visit Red Hook's small waterfront parks, or sit at a picnic table on the pier behind the gourmet Fairway Market, 480-500 Van Brunt St., where you can buy lunch.

The F train to Smith/9th is the closest stop to Red Hook, but city buses (B77 and B61) run along Van Brunt, the main drag. Street parking is plentiful.

Dinner at the recently opened Good Fork _ 391 Van Brunt St., 718-643-6636 _ is worth the trip. Try the crab cake entree ($18), with a Red Hook Cooler (gin and mint), and don't miss the divine chocolate dessert.

It's not uncommon to hear French, Spanish or German among Good Fork's guests, but "New York is such a melting pot, it's hard to tell who's here to visit, and who's here to live," says owner Ben Schneider, whose wife Sohui Kim is the chef.

CONEY ISLAND: Rattle your teeth on the Cyclone roller coaster or catch the view 150 feet up on the Wonder Wheel. Rides are open daily Memorial Day-Labor Day, then weekends through September. Year-round, dip your toes in the Atlantic, eat hot dogs at Nathan's Famous or visit the penguins at the New York Aquarium. By subway, D, Q, N or F to Stillwell Avenue; http://www.coneyisland.com/tourism.shtml.

BROOKLYN BOTANIC GARDEN: A cherry blossom festival takes place each spring, and the Cranford Rose Garden blooms through September. But the garden is worth visiting any time, from the serene Japanese garden and pond, to the orchids and bonsai trees at the Steinhardt Conservatory greenhouse. Open Tuesday-Friday, 8 a.m.-6 p.m.; weekends, 10 a.m.-6 p.m.; closes at 4:30 p.m. October-March. By subway, 2/3 to Eastern Parkway; 1000 Washington Ave., http://www.bbg.org, 718-623-7200. Admission, $5; free Tuesdays and Saturday mornings.

BROOKLYN MUSEUM: Popular "First Saturday" parties offer free art and entertainment, 5 p.m.-11 p.m. the first Saturday of each month (but not Sept. 2). Fall shows include an exhibit of Annie Leibovitz photos opening Oct. 20; http://www.brooklynmuseum.org, 200 Eastern Pkwy., 718-638-5000. Open weekends, 11 a.m.-6 p.m., Wednesday-Friday, 10 a.m.-5 p.m. Suggested admission, $8. By subway, 2/3 to Eastern Parkway.

BROOKLYN ACADEMY OF MUSIC: BAM presents indie films, concerts and performance art. The annual Next Wave festival, October-December, ranges from Shakespeare to contemporary dance; http://www.bam.org, 30 Lafayette Ave., 718-636-4100. Take the 2/3, 4/5, B or Q to Atlantic Avenue.

BUS TOURS: Gray Line sightseeing buses with a Brooklyn loop depart from South Street Seaport in Manhattan; http://www.newyorksightseeing.com, 212-445-0848, tickets $39. "A Slice Of Brooklyn Pizza Tour" departs from Manhattan's Union Square for a tour of pizza places, movie locations and landmarks; http://www.bknypizza.com/, 212-209-3370, tickets $55. Cultural destination tours, http://heartofbrooklyn.org, 718-638-7700.

ACCOMMODATIONS: Hotel and B&B listings at http://www.visitbrooklyn.org/lodging.html.

_Akwaaba Mansion: http://www.akwaaba.com, 347 MacDonough, Bed-Stuy, 718-455-5958, $150-165.

_Holiday Inn Express: 625 Union St., Park Slope, 718-797-1133, $134 starting Aug. 7 and $179 up starting September.

_Brooklyn Marriott: http://www.brooklynmarriott.com, 333 Adams St., downtown Brooklyn, 800-228-9290, $299 up.

FOR MORE INFORMATION: Brooklyn Tourism and Visitors Center, http://www.visitbrooklyn.org, 209 Joralemon St., 718-802-3846.


Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.

[krulltime]

By the way here is a map of Brooklyn with the respective neighborhoods...


http://www.sublet.com/images/Brooklyn_large.jpg

[krulltime]

The French seem to get attracted to Brooklyn...


Brooklyn Develops Own Rive Gauche As French Population, Businesses Grow
Bastille Day Celebration Reveals Popularity of French Culture for All


By Nola Weinstein
published online 07-25-2006

BROOKLYN — Cigarette smoke rose from sidewalk cafés, cast iron fences separated bistro tables from the outside world and balcony partiers inhaled the scene from above. Crepes oozed and revelers boozed.
Recently, Bastille Day, France’s Independence Day, was a cause for patriotic celebration … in Brooklyn.

Over the past few years, the Brooklyn neighborhoods of Fort Greene, Boerum Hill and Park Slope have developed their own “French quarters.” Due largely to an influx of French immigrants, businesses and communities have developed with a distinct Parisian flavor.

“You can find the best country in the world, but you always miss Paris,” said Rachid Boula, 30, manager of Chez Ozkar restaurant in Fort Greene. Boula, who immigrated to the United States in 1998, lives, works and hangs out in the neighborhood.

“I have no intention to move back to France,” he said. “But I will keep hosting a Bastille Day party on July 14, and my countrymen and neighbors will keep coming.”

Over 60,000 French immigrants, half of whom are U.S. citizens, reside in New York City and the population is growing. “The French love something about Brooklyn — the little shops, tree-lined streets, sense of community and proximity to Manhattan, make the area a perfect fit,” said Yann Battesort, a spokesperson for the French Consulate. “The number of well-educated and skilled French immigrants coming to America for economic opportunity and settling here [in Brooklyn] keeps rising.”

Last week Sunday, over 7,000 people gathered for the Sixth Annual Bastille Day Celebration and pétanque tournament on Smith Street in the Boerum Hill neighborhood of Brooklyn.

“It is a people’s day and a people’s game,” said Bette Stoltz, executive director of the South Brooklyn Local Development Corporation, the event’s sponsor.

Pétanque is to the South of France what darts and pool are to the United States. What started as a pastime on the beaches of Cannes has become a street game for Brooklyn residents.

Metal balls clinked together in large sand basins. Men and women dressed in soccer jerseys, bright restaurant T-shirts and Tricolor chanted the French national anthem in front of Bar Tabac.

Similar to Italian bocce, pétanque is played in teams of one to three players on a sandy court. Players throw a heavy metal ball, a boule, so it is closer to a small red ball than their opponents. The ball is lobbed with an underhanded flick of the wrist.

“When the French community started to grow in several Brooklyn neighborhoods, I was approached about starting a Bastille Day block party and I couldn’t resist,” said Stoltz. “Me being a Francophile, married to a Frenchman for the past 40 years and fluent in the language, made it an easy sell; getting tons of sands poured onto Smith Street was the hard part.”

With a cold beer in one hand and a ball or flag in the other, game participants, who paid a $20 entry fee per team, and bystanders enjoyed a European holiday.


The ‘Pétanquettes’


Donning red, white and blue attire and short white cheerleading skirts were a team of three women in their 20s who called themselves “the Pétanquettes.”

“We plan our summers around this Bastille Day festival,” said Tara Louis, the group’s leader, who sported a metallic royal blue bob.

The “Pétanquettes.” were eliminated in the first round of the tournament but stuck around to find themselves some Frenchmen, said Ms. Louis, 29. “We are big fans of all things French.” By day’s end, the girls had latched themselves on to teams of men.

“O-lay, O-lay, O-lay, O-lay,” cheered Emanuel Lafitte, 39, whose voice vibrated down the street. Bald and brawny, Lafitte has been living in New York since 1985 but recently moved to Park Slope. “I play pétanque and soccer here and I am happy,” he said. “What is more beautiful for my people than Brooklyn?”

A Marie Antoinette drag queen serenaded the crowd assembled in front of a local French restaurant’s booth. With a Parisian scene on her shirt, Leslie Bernat, owner of French restaurant Provence Penboite, swayed to the sounds of her life.

“This celebration is about ‘la joie de vivre,’ the joy of living,” said Bernat, who emigrated from France 25 years ago but only recently moved to Brooklyn. “Even if you aren’t a Frenchman, you become one here.”


© Brooklyn Daily Eagle 2006

[krulltime]

Also check out this interesting real estate (per SQFT) prices in NYC... No surprice in Manhattan but just compare the other boroughs...


http://www.zillow.com/static/images/heatmaps/New_York.gif

http://www.zillow.com/heatmaps/CityHeatMaps.htm

[Anarchy77]

I intend to see a little bit more of brooklyn on my next visit.


Wonder why the french immigrants aren't setting up shop in east ny, east flatbush, and bed sty?:rolleyes: Obviously, they are setting up shop in the up and coming gentrified areas. I never said all of brooklyn was bad, but there are parts that really suck. east flatbush sucked when I moved out of the city in the late 80's and hasn't really changed from what I have seen of it in recent years.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I never said all of brooklyn was bad, but there are parts that really suck.
however there are valid criticisms that apply to the outer boroughs in general-.
Which of those 33 criticisms apply to "the outer boroughs in general?"

[Strattonport]

I've only spent a week in Queens in my entire life, but this sounds like the Queens that I encountered.

Combining the worst features of suburb and city, I think it's fair to call most of it a hellhole. (Forest Hills is an exception, and there are doubtless others.)

Try Staten Island instead.

I think pianoman said it best - yes, Queens does integrate some suburban elements, but many parts of it mix urban elements as well. Look at LIC, Flushing, or Jamaica. Great neighborhoods. The only real problem I'd look to is lack of good transportation.

[Schadenfrau]

.
Which of those 33 criticisms apply to "the outer boroughs in general?"

Those damn women wearing "berkas" in 100 degree weather! That's what's wrong with this city.

[Strattonport]

Lmao!

[bkmonkey]

Brooklyn was a very different place in the 80's. Its only in like EVERY MAJOR media outlet. I suggest you take another walk through these areas.. and see all thats changed.. NYC as a whole was a very different place in the 80's. You missed out on the whole little revitilization thingy in the 90's

[Anarchy77]

If I have the time, I will do so. But I can say for sure that east flatbush from what I saw last year was about the same as it was in the 80's.

[Ninjahedge]

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, and I'm not offended by it because I'm Catholic, but be prepared to hear about it from other people here.

He means the buildings are starting to wear hats and grow their fore-locks........ ;)

[Ninjahedge]

PS, HOLY CRAP!

Look at Hoboken on that map!

It is more expensive (per SF) than Forest Hills!!!!!

I think that is maybe because theer are less SF available in Hoboken, not that the cost per residence is higher...


Also, look at areas like Coney Island.

Geez, so close to the water and all that and it is still the "last stop on the subway"... :(

[ramvid01]

PS, HOLY CRAP!

Look at Hoboken on that map!

It is more expensive (per SF) than Forest Hills!!!!!

I think that is maybe because theer are less SF available in Hoboken, not that the cost per residence is higher...


Also, look at areas like Coney Island.

Geez, so close to the water and all that and it is still the "last stop on the subway"... :(

Probably has to do with the fact that it is so close to a body of water and the fact that it is arguable closer to Manhattan. If only the second system plan were implemented, oh would queens be a different place.

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

If I have the time, I will do so. But I can say for sure that east flatbush from what I saw last year was about the same as it was in the 80's.Please, some of the areas you named are great. I'll take bedstuy over any neighborhood in Seattle. I don't know what part of east flatbush you're talking about, it must be the area next brownsville. E.Flatbush is area full of triangle top homes with grass sidewalks and tons of trees, and restaurants who food taste waaaaaay better then any five star restaurant in manhattan looks(or taste).

Not to mention all the neighborhoods you named all have something in common.

[MrSpice]

ummm right..... I would agree that there are some terrible neighborhoods in Brooklyn... but i would disagree in saying that the majority of the borough is ugly.. You proceded to say that only certain neighborhoods were not excluded from the uglyness.. but you named a huge chunk of the borough... While you were at it.. you left off
Flatbush...might be predominatly lower class but a beautiful neighborhood
Midwood.. hands down one of the most beautifule neighborhoods in nyc
Ocean Pkyw area- this parkway has gone un recognized for a while.. but it is beautiful
Bed Stuy- Despite it's reputation... there are many parts of bed stuy that are beautiful and historic.
Dumbo- totally revitalized neigborhood
Downtown- not very rusty and ugly..
Williamsburg-beautiful in its own way
Mill Basin- More like a suburb
Many sections of Crown Hieghts- towards eastern pky..

There are many people who sleep in Brooklyn and live in Manhattan.. Im not saying that you are ignorant.. im simply emploring you to explore these neighborhoods before you dismiss a large swath of the city as rusty and ugly. If youve only seen these parts of the city from an elevated subway train.. well.. enough said.

Dude, I have lived in Brooklyn for many years and klnow the borough as a back of my hand. My parents live there and I visit Brooklyn at least twice every weekend. Flatbush is mostly dirty and ugly expect for some wealthy areas where it just looks like an aevrage suburb with large private houses that. Midwood is good only in the areas with large, expensive private houses. But again, those parts of it look like something you'd see in NJ or Connecticut. But the lively areas of Midwood - Avenue M, for example or Coney Island avenue, or Kings Highway - are mostly ugly, dirty and pretty hideous. Just the view of rusty fire escapes on the many rent-stabilized apartment buildings make you think that Seattle is infinitely prettier than 90% of Brooklyn.

Manhattan Beach is nice, but who can afford to live there? Last time I checked, most of the houses there cost 1.5 million and higher. Most of the area is like a piece of Long Island - very private and separate from the rest of the community.

Dumbo - it is revitalized in places, but it's still predominantly dirty and ugly. How can any area right next to BQE be clean, nice and beautiful?

Not to mention that there's very little geenery in most of Brooklyn. There are many streets where there are no trees whatsoever. Yes, there's prospect park, Ocean Parkway promenade, etc. But if you walk down any street in cities like Boston or Seattle, you will see that Brooklyn really sucks in that regard.

[Schadenfrau]

I think the architecture in Seattle is absolutely hideous. Most of it looks like a giant shopping mall. I really don't understand all the fuss about that city. Portland, OR is much better.

[PSBrooklyn]

I recently moved to Brooklyn from Jersey city and absolutely love it. I bought an apartment in Park Slope and chose Brooklyn over other boroughs and cities mainly because Brooklyn is going to be dramatically different in the next 10 years...more and more people are getting forced out of Manhattan, and Bklyn is by far the second most hip area of the NY area (outside of Manhattan, of course). Yes, there are parts that are dirty and hideous, but the neighborhoods have character and architectural gems that you can't find in many cities out west, making them prime for gentrification. Yes, many neighborhoods are dumps, but they are quickly gentrifying and becoming what they once were. Downtown, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Williamsburg, Bed Stuy, and even places like Gowanas and Windsor Terrace are changing.

The cultural scene in Brooklyn is unparalleled to almost every city across the country (even Manhattan I'd argue), the nightlife is picking up, and more and more people are moving into neighborhoods that 10 years ago no one would dare enter.

Those who think otherwise obviously do not appreciate urban life...so please, go back to the suburbs.

[Anarchy77]

Please, some of the areas you named are great. I'll take bedstuy over any neighborhood in Seattle. I don't know what part of east flatbush you're talking about, it must be the area next brownsville. E.Flatbush is area full of triangle top homes with grass sidewalks and tons of trees, and restaurants who food taste waaaaaay better then any five star restaurant in manhattan looks(or taste).

The areas around church ave, new york avenue, and utica ave in east flatbush are very filthy. There are some nice homes in the area, but the vast majority of the area has garbage strewn all over the streets. The food is good if you're into west indian cuisine, but the neighboorhood's quality of life is seriously lacking.

PS Brooklyn, you're living in one of the few nice neighborhoods in brooklyn--a totally different world from areas like east flatbush, east new york, and crown heights.

[bkmonkey]

Dude, I have lived in Brooklyn for many years and klnow the borough as a back of my hand. My parents live there and I visit Brooklyn at least twice every weekend. Flatbush is mostly dirty and ugly expect for some wealthy areas where it just looks like an aevrage suburb with large private houses that. Midwood is good only in the areas with large, expensive private houses. But again, those parts of it look like something you'd see in NJ or Connecticut. But the lively areas of Midwood - Avenue M, for example or Coney Island avenue, or Kings Highway - are mostly ugly, dirty and pretty hideous. Just the view of rusty fire escapes on the many rent-stabilized apartment buildings make you think that Seattle is infinitely prettier than 90% of Brooklyn.

Manhattan Beach is nice, but who can afford to live there? Last time I checked, most of the houses there cost 1.5 million and higher. Most of the area is like a piece of Long Island - very private and separate from the rest of the community.

Dumbo - it is revitalized in places, but it's still predominantly dirty and ugly. How can any area right next to BQE be clean, nice and beautiful?

Not to mention that there's very little geenery in most of Brooklyn. There are many streets where there are no trees whatsoever. Yes, there's prospect park, Ocean Parkway promenade, etc. But if you walk down any street in cities like Boston or Seattle, you will see that Brooklyn really sucks in that regard.

Ive lived in Brooklyn all my life, and I continue to watch as the borough grows, evolves and chages.

Flatbush is NOT dirty and ugly. Even when people describe ghetto's, flatbush is usually not one of them, it is filled with trees, houses and etc.

We are not discussing the wealth of these neighborhoods, (Brooklyn hieghts isnt exactly "on the market" for many people"), therefore I dont see how you can discout Manhattan beach. Of course there is some grit in Brooklyn. But when you dismiss a neighborhood like flatbush as "dirty and ugly" I wonder how much time youve truly spent in that area. I grew up in Flatbush, and spent the early years of my life there.. there are many words I would use to describe it.. crowded.. vibrant, noisy... but dirty and ugly are not one of them.......

Understandably there are other neighborhoods like East New York.. that are dirty... however please think twice before you dismiss entire neighborhoods as ugly.. Remeber, blight is in the eye of the beholder.. Try telling a resident of Dumbo who shoves out hundreds of thousands.. sometimes millions.. that their neighborhood is "dirty and ugly".. see the reaction you get.

Brooklyn is a CITY.. It has upscale neighborhoods and working class ones. They all have beauty in their own distinct way. In my opinion.

[bkmonkey]

The areas around church ave, new york avenue, and utica ave in east flatbush are very filthy. There are some nice homes in the area, but the vast majority of the area has garbage strewn all over the streets. The food is good if you're into west indian cuisine, but the neighboorhood's quality of life is seriously lacking.

PS Brooklyn, you're living in one of the few nice neighborhoods in brooklyn--a totally different world from areas like east flatbush, east new york, and crown heights.

Brooklyn has MANY decent neighborhoods.. we just went over the list... Although I disagree with the criteria that you use to judge "nice neighborhoods" I will play your game. The "nice section" still includes at least half the borough...

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

The areas around church ave, new york avenue, and utica ave in east flatbush are very filthy. There are some nice homes in the area, but the vast majority of the area has garbage strewn all over the streets. The food is good if you're into west indian cuisine, but the neighboorhood's quality of life is seriously lacking.

PS Brooklyn, you're living in one of the few nice neighborhoods in brooklyn--a totally different world from areas like east flatbush, east new york, and crown heights.Utica? I mean come on, it's a shopping area, how about the side streets with homes and tons of trees? You expect a street with that many people to be spotless? Same thing goes for Crown heights. Culture isn't only going to the coffee shop and view paintings(Crown heights culture>>>Park slope). I like Park Slope Architecture, but the area is dull most of the time and i hope Gentrification never turn Bedstuy into the same thing.

PSBrooklyn: Lets hope what you saying isn't true. Love improvements, hate Gentrification(for the most part).

[Anarchy77]

Utica? I mean come on, it's a shopping area, how about the side streets with homes and tons of trees? You expect a street with that many people to be spotless? Same thing goes for Crown heights. Culture isn't only going to the coffee shop and view paintings(Crown heights culture>>>Park slope). I like Park Slope Architecture, but the area is dull most of the time and i hope Gentrification never turn Bedstuy into the same thing.

Utica Ave--Popeye's Fried Chicken, Fruit and Vegetable stores with brown rotting vegetables, illegal vans constantly beeping their horns and picking people up, broken glass and garbage strewn streets--I know there's shopping, but many shopping areas work at keeping their streets clean.

Plus damn near every homeowner in east flatbush has iron bars on their windows and steel cage doors--but I guess you could say that for most of the city.

Gentrification would be a boon to east flatbush and bed sty as it has been to neighborhoods on the outskirts of downtown like fort greene and clinton hill.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Life must be getting boring in Seattle.

http://www.seattlegossip.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=31&sid=530d641c2a9255b2580b7066b8f49656

[lofter1]

Zip, you are one slick dude :cool:

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

Utica Ave--Popeye's Fried Chicken, Fruit and Vegetable stores with brown rotting vegetables, illegal vans constantly beeping their horns and picking people up, broken glass and garbage strewn streets--I know there's shopping, but many shopping areas work at keeping their streets clean.

Plus damn near every homeowner in east flatbush has iron bars on their windows and steel cage doors--but I guess you could say that for most of the city.

Gentrification would be a boon to east flatbush and bed sty as it has been to neighborhoods on the outskirts of downtown like fort greene and clinton hill.I don't think to many shopping areas have the same amount of people utica have in the same small area. And if so, the area must get way more funding. I could care less about the illegal vans, it's part of the culture.

I hope Bedstuy never turns into Clinton hill. I love the homes and buildings in clinton, but the area is so dull and can be very boring. Bedstuy have it's problems, but any area you can't play loud music from you car(and i don't do it myself) in the day without the cops being called sucks. Bedstuy>>>Clinton overall as a neighborhood.